Former Steroid Users May Retain Drug Benefits

Create: 04/05/2008 - 10:30
USAPL President Larry Maile is quoted in a Wall Street Journal article, Cheaters Do Prosper, published yesterday examining the possibility that the benefits of steroids never completely disappear. In the article, Maile says that "former steroid-using competitors who rehabilitate themselves often become top performers. "They're still bigger and stronger than they ever would have been," he says. There is no way to prove that they're still benefiting from their years of steroid use, he adds, but the question remains, "would they really have been that good had they never used?" The WSJ article examines an October 2006 study by the Department of Integrative Medical Biology at Sweden's Umea University. In that study, researchers compared muscle biopsies of 10 elite powerlifters who were not steroid users to 16 who had used or were using steroids. They found that the muscles of the former steroid users looked similar to those of the subjects who were still using them. It is noted that the study was too small to be definitive and a consensus regarding this result has not been reached. The first powerlifting federation was launched in 2008, WNPFLT, to address the issue at the heart of the study. The WNPFLT only allows lifetime drug free athletes at its competitions. Still other federations, like the AAU, offer lifetime drug free divisions at their competitions.

Comments

Submitted by bencher8 on
WNPFLT...lol just what is needed..I am sure it will be huge. Could it be that the strongest guys are still the strongest guys...even after going off the juice? Go's back to the theory that the top lifters are still going to be the top lifters whether they used or not. Study is to small to be definitive, but some people are going to publish articles, spouting this study as definitive proof...whatever..

Submitted by WAKE UP PEOPLE (not verified) on
Steroids can cause serious health problems. Many changes take place inside the body and may not be noticed until it is too late. Some of the effects will go away when steroid use stops, but some may not. Possible side effects for males and females include the following: High blood pressure and heart disease Liver damage and cancers Stroke and blood clots Urinary and bowel problems, such as diarrhea Headaches, aching joints and muscle cramps Nausea and vomiting Sleep problems Increased risk of ligament and tendon injuries Severe acne, especially on face and back Baldness High school and middle school students and athletes need to be aware of the effect steroids have on growth. Anabolic steroids, even in small doses, have been shown to stop growth too soon. Adolescents also may be at risk for becoming dependent on steroids. Males One of the more disturbing effects of steroid use for males is that the body begins to produce less of its own testosterone. As a result, the testicles may begin to shrink. Following is a list of some of the other effects of steroid use for males: Reduced sperm count Impotence Increase in nipple and breast size (gynecomastia) Enlarged prostate (gland that mixes fluid with sperm to form semen) Females Since steroids act as a male hormone, females may experience the following side effects: Reduced breast size Enlarged clitoris (a very sensitive part of the genitals) Increase in facial and body hair Deepened voice Menstrual problems Steroids also can have the following effects on the mind and behavior: "Roid rage" — severe, aggressive behavior that may result in violence, such as fighting or destroying property Severe mood swings Hallucinations — seeing or hearing things that are not really there Paranoia — extreme feelings of mistrust and fear Anxiety and panic attacks Depression and thoughts of suicide An angry, hostile or irritable mood

Submitted by Mario (not verified) on
[quote=WAKE UP PEOPLE]Steroids can cause serious health problems. Many changes take place inside the body and may not be noticed until it is too late. Some of the effects will go away when steroid use stops, but some may not. Possible side effects for males and females include the following: High blood pressure and heart disease Liver damage and cancers Stroke and blood clots Urinary and bowel problems, such as diarrhea Headaches, aching joints and muscle cramps Nausea and vomiting Sleep problems Increased risk of ligament and tendon injuries Severe acne, especially on face and back Baldness High school and middle school students and athletes need to be aware of the effect steroids have on growth. Anabolic steroids, even in small doses, have been shown to stop growth too soon. Adolescents also may be at risk for becoming dependent on steroids. Males One of the more disturbing effects of steroid use for males is that the body begins to produce less of its own testosterone. As a result, the testicles may begin to shrink. Following is a list of some of the other effects of steroid use for males: Reduced sperm count Impotence Increase in nipple and breast size (gynecomastia) Enlarged prostate (gland that mixes fluid with sperm to form semen) Females Since steroids act as a male hormone, females may experience the following side effects: Reduced breast size Enlarged clitoris (a very sensitive part of the genitals) Increase in facial and body hair Deepened voice Menstrual problems Steroids also can have the following effects on the mind and behavior: "Roid rage" — severe, aggressive behavior that may result in violence, such as fighting or destroying property Severe mood swings Hallucinations — seeing or hearing things that are not really there Paranoia — extreme feelings of mistrust and fear Anxiety and panic attacks Depression and thoughts of suicide An angry, hostile or irritable mood [/quote] Great post but you are straying from the point of the thread. Does steroid use even once give an unfair advantage the rest of your life? Try to stay focused ;-)

Submitted by WAKE UP PEOPLE (not verified) on
REASONS NOT TO USE STEROIDS: 1. Your health: When you use steroids, you WILL have to go through the side effects. You might have some side effects while using roids or you might have a bunch of side effects later on in life. The fact of the matter is that everbody will react different to roids b/c we all have different bodies. The side effects will tear on your body from the roid use. It is not safe to use roids like many that are on roids will say. They are dangerous. How can it be safe to use roids that jacks up your testosterone 10x above normal? How can it be possible for there to be no side effects? With all the postive of roids, will come all the negative of roids. When you lift, you choose to be heathly but when you use roids, it goes against your health. Steroids is not worth it b/c it ruins your health. 2. Steroids are ILLEGAL: There is no way around it. ROIDS ARE ILLEGAL. If you get caught with roids, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. It is the same as getting caught with crack or antoher drug. Roids are ILLEGAL and when you use them, you are CHEATING and BREAKING THE LAW. 3. Why use roids in powerlifting? Why do lifters use roids in powerlifting? They dont get any money out of powerlifting. Those users only use steroids for a number and that is it. They use steroids and not get any money out of it and use the roids only for a "number" they are trying to hit. They go through all the negatives of roids, JUST FOR A NUMBER. Does that sound worth it, to use roids just for a number? You are not going to make any good money in powerlifting b/c they dont pay you shit. 4. Your family: I feel when someone uses steroids they are going against their family. Why use steroids and go through all the negatives with steroids? Roids can put you in jail and you can miss out on your son's/daughter's life or being there for your family. Family is suppose to be #1 and when you use roids, you go against that and put lifting over your family. Not only could roids put you in jail and where you cannot be there for your family like you ARE SUPPOSE TO but you have to go through all the side effects of roids. I dont think your family wants to see you go through all the side effects of roids. Roids also will take years off your life. Some of those lifters also get too much caught up in lifting with roids and it becomes your priority and the only thing you care about. Your family should be #1 but when you use roids, you put roids over your family b/c YOU MIGHT GET CAUGHT AND SPEND TIME IN JAIN INSTEAD OF BEING A DAD THAT IS THERE FOR HIS FAMILY AND ALL THE NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WITH STEROIDS AND GETTING TOO MUCH CAUGHT UP IN LIFTING. Family is #1 no matter what but I see lifters that are on roids, that put roids and lifting over there family. Why use roids? They are stupid and not worth it..

Submitted by zane geeting on
[quote=WAKE UP PEOPLE]REASONS NOT TO USE STEROIDS: 1. Your health: When you use steroids, you WILL have to go through the side effects. You might have some side effects while using roids or you might have a bunch of side effects later on in life. The fact of the matter is that everbody will react different to roids b/c we all have different bodies. The side effects will tear on your body from the roid use. It is not safe to use roids like many that are on roids will say. They are dangerous. How can it be safe to use roids that jacks up your testosterone 10x above normal? How can it be possible for there to be no side effects? With all the postive of roids, will come all the negative of roids. When you lift, you choose to be heathly but when you use roids, it goes against your health. Steroids is not worth it b/c it ruins your health. 2. Steroids are ILLEGAL: There is no way around it. ROIDS ARE ILLEGAL. If you get caught with roids, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. It is the same as getting caught with crack or antoher drug. Roids are ILLEGAL and when you use them, you are CHEATING and BREAKING THE LAW. 3. Why use roids in powerlifting? Why do lifters use roids in powerlifting? They dont get any money out of powerlifting. Those users only use steroids for a number and that is it. They use steroids and not get any money out of it and use the roids only for a "number" they are trying to hit. They go through all the negatives of roids, JUST FOR A NUMBER. Does that sound worth it, to use roids just for a number? You are not going to make any good money in powerlifting b/c they dont pay you shit. 4. Your family: I feel when someone uses steroids they are going against their family. Why use steroids and go through all the negatives with steroids? Roids can put you in jail and you can miss out on your son's/daughter's life or being there for your family. Family is suppose to be #1 and when you use roids, you go against that and put lifting over your family. Not only could roids put you in jail and where you cannot be there for your family like you ARE SUPPOSE TO but you have to go through all the side effects of roids. I dont think your family wants to see you go through all the side effects of roids. Roids also will take years off your life. Some of those lifters also get too much caught up in lifting with roids and it becomes your priority and the only thing you care about. Your family should be #1 but when you use roids, you put roids over your family b/c YOU MIGHT GET CAUGHT AND SPEND TIME IN JAIN INSTEAD OF BEING A DAD THAT IS THERE FOR HIS FAMILY AND ALL THE NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WITH STEROIDS AND GETTING TOO MUCH CAUGHT UP IN LIFTING. Family is #1 no matter what but I see lifters that are on roids, that put roids and lifting over there family. Why use roids? They are stupid and not worth it..[/quote] youre a fucking idiot, keep your mouth shut if you dont know what youre talking about. post with your real name pussy.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
save the sermon pastor! If I wanted to be preached to I would go to church not powerlifting watch! I think most adult steroid users know the risk and make their choices. The teenagers should be educated and I would say to any teen don't do it. If your an adult you can choose for yourself! Its not good for you and it is illegal. So choose cafefully but choose for yourself! STOP PREACHING

Submitted by WAKE UP PEOPLE (not verified) on
[quote=Anonymous]save the sermon pastor! If I wanted to be preached to I would go to church not powerlifting watch! I think most adult steroid users know the risk and make their choices. The teenagers should be educated and I would say to any teen don't do it. If your an adult you can choose for yourself! Its not good for you and it is illegal. So choose cafefully but choose for yourself! STOP PREACHING [/quote] I can preach all I want and there is nothing you can do about it. I have freedom of speech and I have my opinion. I only hope that by what I say many younger lifters will realize that you dont need steroids and that they are dangerous. You dont need roids to be elite. About 90% of elite lifters are on roids but there is about 10% that is drug free and choose not to use roids. Using steroids is the worst chose you can make.

Submitted by zane geeting on
[quote=WAKE UP PEOPLE][quote=Anonymous]save the sermon pastor! If I wanted to be preached to I would go to church not powerlifting watch! I think most adult steroid users know the risk and make their choices. The teenagers should be educated and I would say to any teen don't do it. If your an adult you can choose for yourself! Its not good for you and it is illegal. So choose cafefully but choose for yourself! STOP PREACHING [/quote] I can preach all I want and there is nothing you can do about it. I have freedom of speech and I have my opinion. I only hope that by what I say many younger lifters will realize that you dont need steroids and that they are dangerous. You dont need roids to be elite. About 90% of elite lifters are on roids but there is about 10% that is drug free and choose not to use roids. Using steroids is the worst chose you can make. [/quote] yeah its for sure worse than robbing a bank, killing people, raping people, using cocaine, heroin, meth amphetamine, free basing, stealing, molesting children, beastiality, incest, sodomy... all that, steroids are THE WORST decision you can make. get a life fucktard.

Submitted by Troy Nash on
Steroids are not illegal if you have a Rx. Have any of y'all ever heard of HRT? Testosterone user since Aug 2006

Submitted by isbell on
Steroids arent illegal if you have cancer or HIV and are in need of something to assist with tissue development or induce an appetite. HRT is a whole different discussion. I personally dont see a problem with HRT. If it keeps you feeling better etc it may be looked at more like an antiaging technique in the not so distant future.

Submitted by Mario (not verified) on
[quote=jon] It is noted that the study was too small to be definitive and a consensus regarding this result has not been reached. [/quote] This is the most significant statement in the entire article. Everyone that has been through a basic statitics course or science classes understands the importance of adequately random samples. In this case perhaps a stratified sampling method should be used but that is another thread all together. The bottom line is this. Though I am not (nor have I ever been) partial to steroid use, I am firmly against completely trashing someone's athletic career for past use unless there is definitive research supporting the case and a fool proof method to determine prior use. Both of these circumstances are a long way off regardless of what everyone believes (don't get me started on the logical fallacies of lie detector tests). I recommend that the Swedish continue their research and publish their findings in the appropriate journals so that other unbiased scientists may benefit from their work. Sorry to ramble but I am a stickler for detail when it comes to research ;-)

Submitted by Madvig on
[quote=Mario][quote=jon] It is noted that the study was too small to be definitive and a consensus regarding this result has not been reached. [/quote] This is the most significant statement in the entire article. Everyone that has been through a basic statitics course or science classes understands the importance of adequately random samples. In this case perhaps a stratified sampling method should be used but that is another thread all together. The bottom line is this. Though I am not (nor have I ever been) partial to steroid use, I am firmly against completely trashing someone's athletic career for past use unless there is definitive research supporting the case and a fool proof method to determine prior use. Both of these circumstances are a long way off regardless of what everyone believes (don't get me started on the logical fallacies of lie detector tests). I recommend that the Swedish continue their research and publish their findings in the appropriate journals so that other unbiased scientists may benefit from their work. Sorry to ramble but I am a stickler for detail when it comes to research ;-) [/quote] I doubt this study alone is going to be considered anything for the scientific community as a whole to follow, but it will no doubt draw some attention for further research which will no doubt bring those details you seek. Should be an interesting read when that time comes No this thread was not about pro or anti steroid use. But it’s funny how anytime that topic comes up there is always someone who A. claims to be in the medical field in some capacity (often posting no name) downplaying the risk of steroid use. Or someone who thinks that steroid use is going to bring the end of the world. Or the guy who demands proof that there are any health risks in steroid use and that no one can die from it. Well if anyone here is reasonable they would agree that no steroids is not going to = death. However when you introduce hormones into the body in such fashion (and in excess often with sports) that you’re going to risk damage to your body’s organs. More so without doctors watching over you. Does that damage mean death? No, but you have to be kidding to say that such damage (if any) does not play a role in future health conditions or just your overall life span.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
You have freedom of speach and I have the gift of freewill given to me by God to choose my path and so do others. Have you ever been a user? Its not important to form your oppinion but how do you know every person who uses roids will have these issues? you don't and I agree young lifters should not use. But the poster about hrt is right you can get it legal through a doctor. I just hate to here people who think they know about something but never have walked in the other sides shoes preach to everyone. Go to schools ond educate the youth of tomorrow about the dangers they may listen but they may not. It is better coming from a person who has lived the bad life and can tell the story that gets through to them not someone quoting facts out of a book and what could happen. So enjoy your preaching. Last I will say!

Submitted by Frank Caminita on
To Wake Up People, Can you send me the name of one person who died of those exact causes and it is linked to exclusive Steriod Use. I am not looking for somebody who died and we thought they were using. I am looking for somebody who admitted using and suffered death from one of those medical conditions. Please leave out anybody who did other stuff as we can't narrow it down to steriods only. Surely with all those side effects I know somebody had to die. I would love to have something in black and white and I hadn't been able to find it. I work in Medicine and believe me, I know the differenct between theoritical and imperial evidence. I can read theoritical evidence all over the internet but I can't find a single person who died of ONLY using steriods. Can you help me out.

Submitted by bencher8 on
"Roid rage" — severe, aggressive behavior that may result in violence, such as fighting or destroying property Severe mood swings Hallucinations — seeing or hearing things that are not really there Paranoia — extreme feelings of mistrust and fear Anxiety and panic attacks Depression and thoughts of suicide An angry, hostile or irritable mood" wow....roid rage...assholes are assholes and juicing doesn't have anything to do with it. hallucinations? never heard of that one chief the only one of those I have seen or heard of is increased irritability....but nothing uncontrollable. Unless you were an ass to begin with. At any rate, there is no medical proof f death directly related to only steroids, and no other lifestyle related problems or drug useage.

Submitted by Aragorn (not verified) on
It is incredible,how many people like to talk about things that they don't know. Like about roids. What kind of experience do you have,to talk about steroids use or abuse? I am talking about all people who have criticism about steroids and its use,and know about them only from some kind of reading from internet. If we speak about level of academic value here it is not even in a bondaries of comon sence,so what value it has in a real life and academic level to? I have questions to those who mentioned some kind of health problems with steroids: 1.How did roids start to use and why? 2.Is there any real documented and conected problem that led to serios illnes of any kind,using right dosages of roids?/clinical,sports,terapeutical/ 3.Why roids became ilegal in USA even if in 1990 all 3 major comities/health,drugs,sport/were saing that there is no reasons for that? 4.Why there is no even ONE study that tells that roids are doing something wrong to the organism,of course,in a some dosages that are suitable for every roid that there is? It is enough,for now. Let me tell you that i am a doctor ,with degre in biochemistry ,and i know what i am saying. Sory for my poor english becose I am from Europe/Eastern/. All best.

Submitted by big_byrd52 on
[quote=Aragorn]It is incredible,how many people like to talk about things that they don't know. Like about roids. What kind of experience do you have,to talk about steroids use or abuse? I am talking about all people who have criticism about steroids and its use,and know about them only from some kind of reading from internet. If we speak about level of academic value here it is not even in a bondaries of comon sence,so what value it has in a real life and academic level to? I have questions to those who mentioned some kind of health problems with steroids: 1.How did roids start to use and why? 2.Is there any real documented and conected problem that led to serios illnes of any kind,using right dosages of roids?/clinical,sports,terapeutical/ 3.Why roids became ilegal in USA even if in 1990 all 3 major comities/health,drugs,sport/were saing that there is no reasons for that? 4.Why there is no even ONE study that tells that roids are doing something wrong to the organism,of course,in a some dosages that are suitable for every roid that there is? It is enough,for now. Let me tell you that i am a doctor ,with degre in biochemistry ,and i know what i am saying. Sory for my poor english becose I am from Europe/Eastern/. All best. [/quote] 1) Created during WW2 by German scientists and the first clinical use on humans was for the severely malnutritioned WW2 American POWS and Jewish from the internment camps. 2) Not that have ever been published to my knowledge or anyone elses i have come across in 10 years of research. 3) The Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990 instituted by Bush Sr. prohibitted the use and sale of steroids for non medical purposes. Priot to this act of congress, anabolic steroids were required to be prescribed and dispensed by licensed physicians but were not scheduled as controlled substances. It is often overlooked, however, that black market drug trafficking of anabolic steroids already was illegal before anabolics became classified as controlled substances. Under 1988 legislation amending the Food and Drug Act, criminal penalties were specifically set forth for traffickers in anabolic steroids for non-medical reasons. This Anti-Drug Abuse Act would have enabled effective enforcement against those illegally dispensing steroids and black market dealers. In the late 80s and first part of 1990, Congressional hearings were held to determine whether the Controlled Substances Act should be amended to include anabolic steroids along with more serious drugs like cocaine and heroin. The majority of witnesses who testified, including medical professionals and representatives of regulatory agencies (including the FDA, the DEA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse) recommended against the proposed amendment to the law. Even the American Medical Association repeatedly and vehemently opposed it, maintaining that steroid abuse does not lead to the physical or psychological dependence required for scheduling under the Controlled Substances Act. (The AMA recommended education, not criminalization, to combat steroid abuse.) Why did Congress ignore these experts and decide to schedule steroids as Schedule III controlled substances? The testimony, and apparently Congress' main concern, focused on legislative action in an effort to solve an athletic "cheating" problem. George Dub-ya ammended the act in 2004 by adding 26 new chemicals to the banned substance list. Thats right, finishing what daddy started, the same reason our troops are dying everyday in Iraq right now... but this ammendment put prohormones, chemical precursers to testosterone, and any "muscle building chemical" in the Schedule III list with cocaine, herion, barbituates... all for the name of sports and million dollar contracts... but wait, thats not enough, we gotta do it for the children, for the children, yea. That'll get votes behind this! 4) All side affects listed are purely cosmetic. Sure some high blood pressure and chol, and low hdl, which MIGHT cause problems way down the road if it goes years unchecked/treated. Remembered, these things are CORELATED to heart trouble. CORELATION does not mean CAUSATION. Now my point... i do not understand why a woman, who feels like she should be a man, is allowed to inject more test in her system than any normal man has, and mutilate her genitals to create a cock and balls, just so she can feel like the man she was born to be? Or the same with a man who feels like he should be a woman, can get pumped with estrogen, get fake tits implanted, mutilate his genitals to create a mangina and who knows what else... But god forbid somebody want to do some work, so a man can be a bigger stronger man... and god forbid he attempt to play a sport! Fine i get the whole sports regulation, level playing field thing. I do. I get it. But that is the MINORITY. If u sign a contract agreeing not to use them, dont fuking use them! I didnt sign any damn contract. Im not making MILLIONS of dollars from a contract or endorsement deals. Get out of my fuking business. The government is ever increasingly stepping on our personal liberties and regulating what you choose to do with your body. In case u cant tell, its a sore spot with me.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
[quote=big_byrd52][quote=Aragorn]It is incredible,how many people like to talk about things that they don't know. Like about roids. What kind of experience do you have,to talk about steroids use or abuse? I am talking about all people who have criticism about steroids and its use,and know about them only from some kind of reading from internet. If we speak about level of academic value here it is not even in a bondaries of comon sence,so what value it has in a real life and academic level to? I have questions to those who mentioned some kind of health problems with steroids: 1.How did roids start to use and why? 2.Is there any real documented and conected problem that led to serios illnes of any kind,using right dosages of roids?/clinical,sports,terapeutical/ 3.Why roids became ilegal in USA even if in 1990 all 3 major comities/health,drugs,sport/were saing that there is no reasons for that? 4.Why there is no even ONE study that tells that roids are doing something wrong to the organism,of course,in a some dosages that are suitable for every roid that there is? It is enough,for now. Let me tell you that i am a doctor ,with degre in biochemistry ,and i know what i am saying. Sory for my poor english becose I am from Europe/Eastern/. All best. [/quote] 1) Created during WW2 by German scientists and the first clinical use on humans was for the severely malnutritioned WW2 American POWS and Jewish from the internment camps. 2) Not that have ever been published to my knowledge or anyone elses i have come across in 10 years of research. 3) The Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990 instituted by Bush Sr. prohibitted the use and sale of steroids for non medical purposes. Priot to this act of congress, anabolic steroids were required to be prescribed and dispensed by licensed physicians but were not scheduled as controlled substances. It is often overlooked, however, that black market drug trafficking of anabolic steroids already was illegal before anabolics became classified as controlled substances. Under 1988 legislation amending the Food and Drug Act, criminal penalties were specifically set forth for traffickers in anabolic steroids for non-medical reasons. This Anti-Drug Abuse Act would have enabled effective enforcement against those illegally dispensing steroids and black market dealers. In the late 80s and first part of 1990, Congressional hearings were held to determine whether the Controlled Substances Act should be amended to include anabolic steroids along with more serious drugs like cocaine and heroin. The majority of witnesses who testified, including medical professionals and representatives of regulatory agencies (including the FDA, the DEA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse) recommended against the proposed amendment to the law. Even the American Medical Association repeatedly and vehemently opposed it, maintaining that steroid abuse does not lead to the physical or psychological dependence required for scheduling under the Controlled Substances Act. (The AMA recommended education, not criminalization, to combat steroid abuse.) Why did Congress ignore these experts and decide to schedule steroids as Schedule III controlled substances? The testimony, and apparently Congress' main concern, focused on legislative action in an effort to solve an athletic "cheating" problem. George Dub-ya ammended the act in 2004 by adding 26 new chemicals to the banned substance list. Thats right, finishing what daddy started, the same reason our troops are dying everyday in Iraq right now... but this ammendment put prohormones, chemical precursers to testosterone, and any "muscle building chemical" in the Schedule III list with cocaine, herion, barbituates... all for the name of sports and million dollar contracts... but wait, thats not enough, we gotta do it for the children, for the children, yea. That'll get votes behind this! 4) All side affects listed are purely cosmetic. Sure some high blood pressure and chol, and low hdl, which MIGHT cause problems way down the road if it goes years unchecked/treated. Remembered, these things are CORELATED to heart trouble. CORELATION does not mean CAUSATION. Now my point... i do not understand why a woman, who feels like she should be a man, is allowed to inject more test in her system than any normal man has, and mutilate her genitals to create a cock and balls, just so she can feel like the man she was born to be? Or the same with a man who feels like he should be a woman, can get pumped with estrogen, get fake tits implanted, mutilate his genitals to create a mangina and who knows what else... But god forbid somebody want to do some work, so a man can be a bigger stronger man... and god forbid he attempt to play a sport! Fine i get the whole sports regulation, level playing field thing. I do. I get it. But that is the MINORITY. If u sign a contract agreeing not to use them, dont fuking use them! I didnt sign any damn contract. Im not making MILLIONS of dollars from a contract or endorsement deals. Get out of my fuking business. The government is ever increasingly stepping on our personal liberties and regulating what you choose to do with your body. In case u cant tell, its a sore spot with me.[/quote] Bravo! It is very important,that man from USA ,and very vell known atlete,to do this kind of comment. Why I am saying this? Becouse,when I am saying it,no mather that I am doctor,but I am no American and more,I am from Eastern Europe,"there is Meka of roids" and etc I just want to add something,to this exelent post,of Mr.Byrd. Answer is here,that there are SO MANY FARMACEUTICAL STIMULANTS OF HORMON PRODUCTION,THAT GET BILIONS OF DOLARS TO FARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES IN STATES. WHAT WOULD BE HAPPENING WITH THE PROFIT,FROM THIS BS "FANTASTIC SUPLEMENTS", IF STEROIDS WOULD BE NO ILLEGAL ENYMORE? REMEBER OF EFEDRIN AFERA? SO, MILION DOLAR ANSWER IS MONIE!! Well, you all knew it,but I just remind you. All best to all people. "

Submitted by wcwaldron on
IT SUCKS TO SEE MORE PEOPLE BASH AN ANTI-STEROID POST THAN PRAISE IT. I'm sure there may be facts that WAKE UP PEOPLE may exaggerate or miss on but I don't know. I'm not Alex Trebek, I don't have all the answers. I've only personally known one guy that was using and he had most all of the listed symptoms. The point is that it's frustrating to know that so many use. I don't know if WUP is a drug free lifter, but I am and let me tell you I hate it. I hate it because my competition dwindels with every new user. I've never used and I never will so, though I have an elite total myself, I will never reach the levels I could if I used so I don't stand a chance against the elite that do. I can't go head to head with the best who use because it's simply not fair. It's already bad enough that our sport is so unpopular. I want to challenge the strength of all athletes, not just the very small percentage who powerlift. If I end up winning some big competitions it would be nice to know that I really am the strongest instead of the strongest with the exception of the guys who use steroids, or wear more gear, or wear less gear, or the guys who olympic lift instead, or the guys who do strongman instead, or the guys who wrestle instead, or the guys who do mma instead, etc... I guess what I'm saying is that it just sucks that of all the things we can't agree on we should at least be able to agree against something that is bad for your health. And I don't care who says it, I will NEVER be told that steroids are okay for your health. So more power to you WAKE UP PEOPLE. I'm with you.

Submitted by Mario (not verified) on
[quote=wcwaldron]IT SUCKS TO SEE MORE PEOPLE BASH AN ANTI-STEROID POST THAN PRAISE IT. [/quote] The original post was not specifically an anti-steroid post. You should re-read. I wish steroids never existed, but we should all be able to exchange ideas without having the discussion deteriorate to this level, don't you think?

Submitted by admin on
The health risks of steroids are not the topic of this article. Let's keep the remainder of this particular discussion on topic. Thank you.

Submitted by Sean Katterle, ... (not verified) on
I like to see the athlete win who trained the hardest and who remained dedicated to their sport over years and years, giving it all they had and fighting their way to the top. On the topic of testosterone, men in their 30s can range (on the point scale used by endocrinologists) from 300 points to 1,000 points. So, there are powerlifters out there with triple the test running through their veins than other less fortunate powerlifters. If the 300 point powerlifter used a minor amount of testosterone, say a 200mg-300mg per week injection (the amount usually contained in 1cc of test enanthate) then they'd merely be evening the playing field in regards to hormones. If you've spent enough time in the gym you've seen the lifters who train and diet like mad scientists yet still seem to struggle with a 300 pound raw bench even after years of training. You've also seen the lifter (who doesn't use steroids) who trains every few days and just does some basic bodybuilding yet their gains come fast and easy and if they focus on power training they're quickly raw benching close to 400 pounds as if anyone could do it. The powerlifters who want steroids to be unavailable are the powerlifters who got lucky on the genetics side. That's great for them but the powerlifter who wasn't born with the best DNA cards but who has more heart deserves a fighting chance for victory too IMO. That's why we don't test at my company's promotions. It's none of my business if someone needs HRT or not. I'm not an advocate of drug abuse but I do believe in personal freedoms and I do believe in drug use because drugs are supposed to be a chemical tool. I've also spoken to anti-steroid powerlifters who change their tune in their 40s and experience a drop in test naturally; which puts them on the level that the lower test person had to fight thru all through their adult life.

Submitted by Mario (not verified) on
[quote=Sean Katterle, Hardcore Powerlifting.com]I like to see the athlete win who trained the hardest and who remained dedicated to their sport over years and years, giving it all they had and fighting their way to the top. On the topic of testosterone, men in their 30s can range (on the point scale used by endocrinologists) from 300 points to 1,000 points. So, there are powerlifters out there with triple the test running through their veins than other less fortunate powerlifters. If the 300 point powerlifter used a minor amount of testosterone, say a 200mg-300mg per week injection (the amount usually contained in 1cc of test enanthate) then they'd merely be evening the playing field in regards to hormones. If you've spent enough time in the gym you've seen the lifters who train and diet like mad scientists yet still seem to struggle with a 300 pound raw bench even after years of training. You've also seen the lifter (who doesn't use steroids) who trains every few days and just does some basic bodybuilding yet their gains come fast and easy and if they focus on power training they're quickly raw benching close to 400 pounds as if anyone could do it. The powerlifters who want steroids to be unavailable are the powerlifters who got lucky on the genetics side. That's great for them but the powerlifter who wasn't born with the best DNA cards but who has more heart deserves a fighting chance for victory too IMO. That's why we don't test at my company's promotions. It's none of my business if someone needs HRT or not. I'm not an advocate of drug abuse but I do believe in personal freedoms and I do believe in drug use because drugs are supposed to be a chemical tool. I've also spoken to anti-steroid powerlifters who change their tune in their 40s and experience a drop in test naturally; which puts them on the level that the lower test person had to fight thru all through their adult life.[/quote] Sean, While I am sure everyone appreciates the information on avg. test levels in our 30s ( I am almost 40). We are still a bit off topic. Also, it seems a bit opportunistic to use the thread to validate the lack of drug testing at your events. Most of us are cynical enough to understand that if you don't test it is probably due to monetary issues and not ethically justifiable. Please accept my apology if I am wrong.

Submitted by zane geeting on
[quote=Sean Katterle, Hardcore Powerlifting.com]I like to see the athlete win who trained the hardest and who remained dedicated to their sport over years and years, giving it all they had and fighting their way to the top. On the topic of testosterone, men in their 30s can range (on the point scale used by endocrinologists) from 300 points to 1,000 points. So, there are powerlifters out there with triple the test running through their veins than other less fortunate powerlifters. If the 300 point powerlifter used a minor amount of testosterone, say a 200mg-300mg per week injection (the amount usually contained in 1cc of test enanthate) then they'd merely be evening the playing field in regards to hormones. If you've spent enough time in the gym you've seen the lifters who train and diet like mad scientists yet still seem to struggle with a 300 pound raw bench even after years of training. You've also seen the lifter (who doesn't use steroids) who trains every few days and just does some basic bodybuilding yet their gains come fast and easy and if they focus on power training they're quickly raw benching close to 400 pounds as if anyone could do it. The powerlifters who want steroids to be unavailable are the powerlifters who got lucky on the genetics side. That's great for them but the powerlifter who wasn't born with the best DNA cards but who has more heart deserves a fighting chance for victory too IMO. That's why we don't test at my company's promotions. It's none of my business if someone needs HRT or not. I'm not an advocate of drug abuse but I do believe in personal freedoms and I do believe in drug use because drugs are supposed to be a chemical tool. I've also spoken to anti-steroid powerlifters who change their tune in their 40s and experience a drop in test naturally; which puts them on the level that the lower test person had to fight thru all through their adult life.[/quote] great post sean. i couldnt agree more

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
[Quote=Aragorn]It is incredible,how many people like to talk about things that they don't know. Like about roids. What kind of experience do you have,to talk about steroids use or abuse? I am talking about all people who have criticism about steroids and its use,and know about them only from some kind of reading from internet. If we speak about level of academic value here it is not even in a bondaries of comon sence,so what value it has in a real life and academic level to? I have questions to those who mentioned some kind of health problems with steroids: 1.How did roids start to use and why? 2.Is there any real documented and conected problem that led to serios illnes of any kind,using right dosages of roids?/clinical,sports,terapeutical/ 3.Why roids became ilegal in USA even if in 1990 all 3 major comities/health,drugs,sport/were saing that there is no reasons for that? 4.Why there is no even ONE study that tells that roids are doing something wrong to the organism,of course,in a some dosages that are suitable for every roid that there is? It is enough,for now. Let me tell you that i am a doctor ,with degre in biochemistry ,and i know what i am saying. Sory for my poor english becose I am from Europe/Eastern/. All best.[/Quote] I doubt very seriously that you are remotely close to being a doctor. (Even doctor's know how to use a spell check.) Regardless, you don't know any more or less than the rest of us. What you have is an unsubstantiated opinion. Which like everyone else you have every right to express. What you do not EVER have the right to do, however, is attempt to deny others the right to express their point of view. When it comes right down to it, there's no more academic research to support your perspective than there is to support the community that comdemns steroid use. Feel free to prove me wrong. Please direct me to any studies that have verified that steriods don't have negative side effects. [Quote=Anonymous]I just hate to here people who think they know about something but never have walked in the other sides shoes preach to everyone.[/Quote] As for you...this is just nuts!!! So I can't condemn crackheads because I've never smoked crack, I can't condemn thieves because I've never stolen, ...you get the point (or probably not).

Submitted by zane geeting on
[quote=Anonymous][Quote=Aragorn]It is incredible,how many people like to talk about things that they don't know. Like about roids. What kind of experience do you have,to talk about steroids use or abuse? I am talking about all people who have criticism about steroids and its use,and know about them only from some kind of reading from internet. If we speak about level of academic value here it is not even in a bondaries of comon sence,so what value it has in a real life and academic level to? I have questions to those who mentioned some kind of health problems with steroids: 1.How did roids start to use and why? 2.Is there any real documented and conected problem that led to serios illnes of any kind,using right dosages of roids?/clinical,sports,terapeutical/ 3.Why roids became ilegal in USA even if in 1990 all 3 major comities/health,drugs,sport/were saing that there is no reasons for that? 4.Why there is no even ONE study that tells that roids are doing something wrong to the organism,of course,in a some dosages that are suitable for every roid that there is? It is enough,for now. Let me tell you that i am a doctor ,with degre in biochemistry ,and i know what i am saying. Sory for my poor english becose I am from Europe/Eastern/. All best.[/Quote] I doubt very seriously that you are remotely close to being a doctor. (Even doctor's know how to use a spell check.) Regardless, you don't know any more or less than the rest of us. What you have is an unsubstantiated opinion. Which like everyone else you have every right to express. What you do not EVER have the right to do, however, is attempt to deny others the right to express their point of view. When it comes right down to it, there's no more academic research to support your perspective than there is to support the community that comdemns steroid use. Feel free to prove me wrong. Please direct me to any studies that have verified that steriods don't have negative side effects. [Quote=Anonymous]I just hate to here people who think they know about something but never have walked in the other sides shoes preach to everyone.[/Quote] As for you...this is just nuts!!! So I can't condemn crackheads because I've never smoked crack, I can't condemn thieves because I've never stolen, ...you get the point (or probably not). [/quote] actually there are studies by the AMA (american medical association) DEA, and New England journal of health & medicine. that all said there is no proof that steroids cause any of these side effects, and yes controled tests were performed. all three organizations opposed steroids being made illegal under the anabolics act of 1990. if you post with your real name i can probably find these studies for you to look at if you dont believe me. the only reason steroids were made illegal is politics, when ben johnson beat our golden boy carl lewis all shit hit the fan.

Submitted by Myles Kantor on
Very interesting issue. If someone develops a certain level of strength with steroids and later trains without them, it's logical that the steroid-reinforced training will carry over into drug-free training. This suggests a residual competitive advantage over lifetime drug-free athletes. Ultimately this is a private matter for each federation to address. I guess the WNPFLT and AAU use a polygraph to determine lifetime drug-free status? In any case, steroids aren't going away because elite athletics gravitates to all means of enhancing performance--whether living in a cave for a month and watching Apocalypse Now every night or using steroids. And if steroids pose health risks, health isn't exactly central to elite athletics.

Submitted by Mario (not verified) on
[quote=Myles Kantor]Very interesting issue. If someone develops a certain level of strength with steroids and later trains without them, it's logical that the steroid-reinforced training will carry over into drug-free training. This suggests a residual competitive advantage over lifetime drug-free athletes. Ultimately this is a private matter for each federation to address. I guess the WNPFLT and AAU use a polygraph to determine lifetime drug-free status? In any case, steroids aren't going away because elite athletics gravitates to all means of enhancing performance--whether living in a cave for a month and watching Apocalypse Now every night or using steroids. And if steroids pose health risks, health isn't exactly central to elite athletics. [/quote] Well stated Myles, but don't get me started on the fallacy of lie detectors or voice stress analyzers ... LOL.

Submitted by Jerry Fox on
I'm not sure of the point of such a small study and please correct me but I was unaware that muscle tissue/fibres enhanced by aas would look significantly different from natural.And 'wake up people' I hope you go to church and clean your teeth twice a day,don't have a record,have never begged,borrowed,cussed or stole.If not I see you in Hell and you can pass the soap.

Submitted by Michael A Taylor on
You lift today, sleep tonight, eat tommarow and live Forever. I dont think people retain their benefits if they are short term users. The rest of the muscle atrophies after the discontinued use of steroids due to lower levels of testosterone. It's the body’s reaction to a heightened level of hormones. Someone with profound muscle mass will retain that but will diminish over time. So in the long run, no.

Submitted by Capt Morgan (not verified) on
So many opinions and everyone is very compassionate about their views. Just from my personal experience, I juiced over 20 years ago. I was a very immature and foolish kid that wanted to be bigger b/c I was a nobody. It was poor decision on my part, but when I stopped taking the steroids, I didn't lose a thing. B/c this is purely anecdotal, who knows what would have happened if I never used them. I will tell you, that my size and strength jumped when I used them. When the levels of testosterone drop after their use, the protein synthesized by them does not disappear too. I believe Aragorn is a doctor. He made statements that you often here from doctors making an unbiased statement. They know steroids are harmful, but there is a lack of significant evidence to support the sky is falling claims. It is like deadlifting and squatting. There is a large amount of people in the population that believe those exercises are not worth the risk. Good unbiased researchers have continually asked, "If they are so dangerous, Where are the documented cases proving they are dangerous?" NO offense to Mr Wake Up People. A lot of dudes my age suffer from a majority of those symptoms and never used steroids.

Submitted by JE (not verified) on
I believe there is a phyiological change that stays with you to some degree, espescially if you continue to train just as hard. To what degree is the question.

Submitted by SO What! (not verified) on
I think Larry Maile is right. Gassed up lifters that go off will keep most or all of their strength and at least some of their size assuming they keep training/eating smart. To this I say- SO WHAT. The rules of Maile's organization merely require their lifters to produce urine free of bonus androgens. Assuming, they do so, everything else is fair game. The deck of life is stacked with many inequalities of natural ability and availabel resources. Guys who sweat the advantages that another lifter may have really need to redirect their focus on something that they CAN control- their own training.

Submitted by jphadden on
[quote=SO What!]I think Larry Maile is right. Gassed up lifters that go off will keep most or all of their strength and at least some of their size assuming they keep training/eating smart. To this I say- SO WHAT. The rules of Maile's organization merely require their lifters to produce urine free of bonus androgens. Assuming, they do so, everything else is fair game. The deck of life is stacked with many inequalities of natural ability and availabel resources. Guys who sweat the advantages that another lifter may have really need to redirect their focus on something that they CAN control- their own training. [/quote] When entering the usapl, you sign an oath stating that you have not used drugs for three years. The rules are not to merely pass a drug test. If you enter a meet and have used within three years, you are breaking the rules. And yes, I realize that this does not matter to most.

Submitted by Myles Kantor on
"The deck of life is stacked with many inequalities of natural ability and available resources." (Joking.) In the interest of equality, I demand the right to do a three-board press in competition so that shorter-limbed lifters do not have an advantage over me. The era of biomechanical privilege must end! (Think Kurt Vonnegut's *Harrison Bergeron.*)

Submitted by Buff-alo Bencher on
This argument never dies. The real issue isn't the steroid use, but the liars who rationalize their use in tested feds. The "well , everyone else is using and beating the test " shouldn't fly. I lift in untested feds because I don't think it's fair to compete against true lifetime drug free or against any other rules that I violate. I was strong before juice and got stronger after, but I believe my natural genetics brought me to a certain limit and then the drugs give a little extra. Maybe they help more in some people then others and maybe they help you reach your natural limit faster. THen there are those that use to gain an edge and those that take alot of stuff. How much benefit is gained from a lifter taking slightly more then an HRT dose for a competitive edge versus the guy who takes 10X that. It's not like every lifter that takes the juice brings his bench from 225 raw to a 500. This just isn't reality. There is no way to determine the benefit because it' all individual.Whatever the argument, I would not feel proud to be beat a true natural lifter. I want to compete against the best and I will comply with the rules of the feds I lift in. All sports , at the top level, have the people that will do whatever it takes to be the best whether it is new equipment, better drugs, new training or supplements. There is a point where elite athletes will decide which way they go and what they are willing to do. These are , for the most part, eductaed adults that know the possible risks, but take the chance. I don;t want to be preached to about my choices, lifestyle or whatever else. Lift hwere you want and follow the rules of the sport or oranization you are a memeber of. If people didn't feel the need to cheat the system and compete "on" in a tested fed this shouldn't be an issue. I respect either choice and please respect mine. On to the argument of dangers and legality. As already mentioned HRT is a valuable tool for overall health and quality of life. These drugs have a purpose and although some athletes take extreme amounts, these are not class 1 controlled substances . Steroid are used in a variety of medical uses and if they were as dangerous as some people would lead us to believe, there would be a body count. Another issue is the legal roids. There are products out there that can be purchased legally and are every bit as much a steroid as dbol or anadrol. They are the new post ban designers and with them comes the benefits and side effects that the illegal ones do., but they are legal, at this time. So everyone that uses is not an evil law breaker that needs to spend time in jail for his terrible crime!!!

Submitted by Carter/APC (not verified) on
I definitely believe that if you use anabolics to set your foundation and you keep training hard and consume enough calories after you have stopped taking enhancement pharmaceuticals I believe you have given yourself an advantage that you would have never seen otherwise. I believe that if you take anabolics knowing the risks and "possible" side effects you deserve the reward. Those that have not taken steroids do not deserve the good and bad the pharmaceuticals offer. To reiterate anabolics plus smart training plus moderate use equals a top lifter. I think that it is even good to train for a couple of years then correctly use anabolics on and off for a few years then come off for a few more years and see what you have acheived. However from observing friends ananbolics seem to have a better effect in the long run if you do not start until your early twenties. Starting them to soon will weaken your base.

Submitted by Mike Ricker (not verified) on
Show me someone who "rehabilited" after using and continued to lift as much or more and I'll show you someone STILL ON THE DRUGS! NO ONE goes off and gets stronger! Look at the cheaters in the USAPL - the busted ones that come back usually come back heavier and lifting less. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still cheating. I do think they retain some of the benefits - definately not all unless they keep using.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
[quote=Mike Ricker]Look at the cheaters in the USAPL - the busted ones that come back usually come back heavier and lifting less. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still cheating.[/quote]Of whom are you speaking? Is there one specific case or many?

Submitted by zane geeting on
[quote=Mike Ricker]Show me someone who "rehabilited" after using and continued to lift as much or more and I'll show you someone STILL ON THE DRUGS! NO ONE goes off and gets stronger! Look at the cheaters in the USAPL - the busted ones that come back usually come back heavier and lifting less. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still cheating. I do think they retain some of the benefits - definately not all unless they keep using. [/quote] i personally know a guy who is just as strong if not stronger now than when he was on gear, and its been over 2 years since he used anything. i know this 100% for a fact. he still competes in untested feds and is planning on using again in the future. but the fact remains that he could pass any drug test out there and hes just as strong or stronger now.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
yes if you use AAS for a period of time you will inevitably retain their effects especially if proper PCT is taken. at the end of the day, who fuckin cares anymore? everybody uses.. USAPL guys use, IPF guys use, APF, UPA, everybody uses. you will never, ever stop drug use in PL. they can't stop it in the olympics yet the dream goes on that you'll be able to stop it a very underdeveloped, under funded strength sport... what a joke

Submitted by zane geeting on
[quote=Anonymous]yes if you use AAS for a period of time you will inevitably retain their effects especially if proper PCT is taken. at the end of the day, who fuckin cares anymore? everybody uses.. USAPL guys use, IPF guys use, APF, UPA, everybody uses. you will never, ever stop drug use in PL. they can't stop it in the olympics yet the dream goes on that you'll be able to stop it a very underdeveloped, under funded strength sport... what a joke [/quote] so true. unfortunate, but true.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
"the only reason steroids were made illegal is politics, when ben johnson beat our golden boy carl lewis all shit hit the fan." did you know that it was reported that lewis popped more than once while being tested? it is amazing that when someone pops once it is thrown all over the media. but when a a chosen one gets caught you dont hear anything about it.

Submitted by zane geeting on
[quote=Anonymous]"the only reason steroids were made illegal is politics, when ben johnson beat our golden boy carl lewis all shit hit the fan." did you know that it was reported that lewis popped more than once while being tested? it is amazing that when someone pops once it is thrown all over the media. but when a a chosen one gets caught you dont hear anything about it.[/quote] lol... amazing, but not that surprising.

Submitted by Sealll on
Still, the topic is retained benefits. However, if you know you are right, even if you can't prove it with science yet, stay the course brother...

Submitted by admin on
If it was a response to another post it may have been deleted accidentally when I deleted a couple of others. I'm trying to keep things on topic. This isn't about possible negative effects of steroids.

Submitted by Frank Caminita on
TO WAKE UP PEOPLE, I am still waiting on that name. Surely you can find one because I haven't had any luck but you seem to know alot about the subject. Come on and help me out with one name, surely somebody died.

Submitted by WAKE UP PEOPLE (not verified) on
[quote=Frank Caminita]TO WAKE UP PEOPLE, I am still waiting on that name. Surely you can find one because I haven't had any luck but you seem to know alot about the subject. Come on and help me out with one name, surely somebody died. [/quote] Frank Camacack, I did provide a list but it got deleted. You might want to read the the last post. It really doesnt matter b/c you are not going to believe it. Even when the evidence is right in your face, you are not going to believe it. You and the other 90% of elite lifters that are on roids are in the denial. You all think everything is going to be alright and there is no side effects of using roids. Steroids jacks your testostrone 100x more then normal but you think everything is going to be ok and there is no side effects. You will have to suffer the negative side effects from roids sometime in your lifetime. In general, roids takes years off your life. Using roids is no different then someone who uses tabacco or drinks alcohol, THEY ALL WILL TAKE YEARS OFF OF YOUR LIFE. Steroids has not been around America long enough to really know the long term side effects but give that time. You use roids and not only do you have to go through the negative side effects but it is ILLEGAL. So that means you a illegal drug user. Many who uses roids or other drugs are in denial just like you and they all think everything will be alright. You and all the other lifters who are on roids are stupid. Anybody who uses roids for any sport is a dumbass. So Frank Campotcok and to all other lifters on roids, keep using the roids and being in denial about it. You all WILL have to suffer the negative side effects of roids sometime in your life time. Dont say I did not warn you. I am happy to be 100% drug free b/c it means so much more. When I do a weight it is ALL myself doing it but the only reason many roid lifters can do the weight is b/c of the roids. They could not do it without the roids. Steroids is the worst choice you could make in lifting. Jon, Please do not delete this post. This was a reply to Frank. Thank you..

Submitted by admin on
Frank, he left a lot of names but I deleted a couple of his comments as they were off topic.

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