Can Effective Tested & Untested Lifting Exist In One Fed?

Wed, 10/18/2006 - 07:37 -- admin
Yes
48% (134 votes)
No
52% (144 votes)
Total votes: 278

Comments

Submitted by George Phipps (not verified) on
Why can't a fed have both? To think that a fed can't have both because the un-tested guys are infectious is stupid. Alot of us know there are top ranked guys who are using in tested feds, and yet these same feds put themselves on some higher ground and throw stones at everyone else who admits that there are drugs in the tested feds. I think a fed that has both could actually do a better job of testing, and keeping the tested side somewhat clean. George

Submitted by TheGymMuse on
George, it hasn't been accomplished yet in spite of the fact that there are some federations that have both tested and untested divisions. They are perceived, even by the powerlifting community, as being one in the same and there is no divison seen between the two. Unless of course if you are a member of those respected federations. Interesting case in point, when was the last time you've heard of someone getting suspended due to any reason from any federation? And name the federations who banned the lifters. And why do you have the impression that the tested side is concerned with being infected? That assumption is a silly consideration at best. And without the aid of testing, how is it that "we" know who is using and who is not without some admission. Again, assumptions are made. I don't know anyone who uses stuff that would cause them to fail a test in spite that there have been others who seem to know otherwise. Guess I don't know my friends very well. And in all fairness, arn't stones being hurled by both sides? There are those who mischaracterise others and conditions continually, even on this board, to sway support for their cause. How would you propose how a federation could include both tested and non-tested divisions without it being perceived as anything different? And what is wrong with a federation standing firm in its resolve to maintain it's identity? I think that if when a person or group makes it known what it stands for, shouldn't that be respected? Lift..., what else? Jim Roberts Maryland State Chairman 100% RAW Powerlifting Federation www.marylandpowerlifting.blogspot.com

Submitted by George Phipps (not verified) on
Jim, I know the APF has the AAPF, and I know several guys who have or are now competing there. These guys are all clean to the best of my knowledge. I do believe you can have both just like drag racing has their Top Fuel divisons and then several divisons for everyone else. This works awesome in the NHRA, IHRA, so why can't it work with powerlifting? There is no reason why one fed couldn't have unlimited gear- untested, single ply tested, and raw tested. The problem with powerlifting is not accepting what someone else wants to accomplish. Drag racing had the same thing in the 50's and 60's and it almost destroyed it, but Wally Parks saw the light and created a place for everyone to compete and be happy. We need a Wally Parks to fix powerlifting. Come on now Jim the USAPL acts like the guys who use have leprosy, just look at the Brian Siders mess. IPF, USAPL sitting in their ivory tower passing judgment on everyone that doesn't do it their way. Yes they act like they will be infected. Testing is a joke! There is no sure way to catch every user. A college chemistry student can create a new steriod that can't be detected, and their are so many willing to use that there are people creating new drugs all the time, and for every new drug or growth hormone there must be a new test; it is a never ending cycle. That is why most Olympic level athletes are not caught. I am drug free and always will be, but I train with and know many great lifters who use, and that is their choice; and not one of them competes in a drug tested fed. George

Submitted by TheGymMuse on
George, "I know the APF has the AAPF, and I know several guys who have or are now competing there. These guys are all clean to the best of my knowledge." And most likely they are clean. The problem is perception and credibility. When was the last time someone from the AAPF was supended for doping violations? "The problem with powerlifting is not accepting what someone else wants to accomplish." I believe this is a subjective statement and perhaps one made to mischaracterize what others have stated. There are many federations in existance today because the standards found in one federation was not suitable for some. So, off they went and started another federation. That is a fact. "I do believe you can have both just like drag racing has their Top Fuel divisons and then several divisons for everyone else. This works awesome in the NHRA, IHRA, so why can't it work with powerlifting?" We're talking about two different sports.When you see a lifter lifting in gear and one without, you can differentiate between the two. Even in auto racing, inspections are done to ensure that teams don't cheat because what is obvious on the outside dosen't necessarily mean compliance on the inside. ..."the USAPL acts like the guys who use have leprosy, just look at the Brian Siders mess. IPF, USAPL sitting in their ivory tower passing judgment on everyone that doesn't do it their way. Yes they act like they will be infected." Do you personally know anyone from the USAPL? Brain was suspended for rules infractions, not doping violations. There are many, including some in the USAPL who feel the rule is wrong, but it is a rule. It is a fantasy to paint others feelings in the manner in which this episode has been portrayed on the boards as being one of being indifferent. There are some in the USAPL who have stepped up to make an appeal for Brian. Question remains, has Brian made an appeal? He has been silent much like the IPF. And yes, when those who are in charge makes an unfavorable judgements, it is not always welcomed by some if not the majority. Was the decision fair? Not in mine or a lot of others opinions because of evidence that have been presented, ironically on the boards. The argument so far has been one sided and presented in a way to sway opinions. We'll need to wait to see if the IPF leadership decides to make a similare appeal. I doubt they will because it is a matter between the IPF and Brian. The point I'm trying to make is everyone has opinions and most have been formed on one set of evidence that have been found on the boards. That does not make others who have remained silent less significant or freightened of catching some disease. When you agree to lift in federation, you also agree to follow the rules. There are federations which do not have a clear set of rules for those who do not wish to lift in such a controlling environment. "Testing is a joke!" That is your opinion and I respect that. "There is no sure way to catch every user." But, the effort is made. "A college chemistry student can create a new steriod that can't be detected, and their are so many willing to use that there are people creating new drugs all the time, and for every new drug or growth hormone there must be a new test; it is a never ending cycle." You're right! But, like cops and robbers, the criminals are always one step ahead of law enforcement. You cannot identify the next trick until it is acted out. It is frustrating! Especially when it is hoped that good sportsmanship would be honored by all. "I am drug free and always will be, but I train with and know many great lifters who use, and that is their choice; and not one of them competes in a drug tested fed." Glad to hear this George. I would hope that it stays this way. It is also hoped that you would reconsider why testing exists and that reason is often to serve as a deterant. "Why can't a fed have both?" Again, how would "you" go about doing it or setting it up so to avoid the similar mispercetions that aflict feds already in existance?? Lift..., what else? Jim Roberts Maryland State Chairman 100% RAW Powerlifting Federation www.marylandpowerlifting.blogspot.com

Submitted by George Phipps (not verified) on
Jim, First off I do know a few USAPL lifters, and one of them is national level. From their own mouths the USAPL is the "no fun fed", and I have asked them "why would anyone lift in a fed that is no fun?" They reply because of the rules or because it is a road to the IPF worlds. I coach several lifters, many who are teens and I won't take my kids to a "no fun meet", we compete mostly in the WABDL, but I plan on doing some APF/AAPF meets this coming year. The example of drag racing is a good one because: 1) drag racing has never been main stream, and yet it has grown huge over the last twenty years. 2) Top Fuel is so far out there compared to the cars on the street, there is no way that someone can say the ordinary guy can go Top Fuel racing. The NHRA actually outlawed the Fuel cars in the sixties for this reason, but wisdon brought them back and they are what the fans come to see. 3) There are many catagories for racers to compete in and they all compete together on the big stage all across the country through their national events. How does this relate to powerlifting? 1) People come to see the big weights moved. The Arnold is the biggest powerlifting event in the world, as far spectators goes. Where else can you get almost 2 thousand people to watch powerlifting? 2) Gus has proved that if you give many classes for people to compete in you'll draw a big crowd of lifters, and this is not a bad thing. The WABDL is thriving and doesn't suffer from the same infighting as the other feds. Gus is doing alot of things right. Now if you combine the two: Have a class for the double ply untested lifters.(Top Fuel, funny car)Have a single ply tested open division (pro stock) and then masters, sub-master, women masters, sub- master, teen and so on. And throw in a Raw tested divison and you have a powerlifting version of the NHRA. Now set up two national meets as qualifiers and then a World's and you have a great fed. Everyone is happy and the crowds come to see the freaks in Top Fuel. I didn't say we shouldn't test, but the thought of having a drug-free fed is not real. Most elite athletes who use don't get caught, and when they do it is because they screwed up. As I have said I don't use or encourage any one to use, but I don't hold it against guys who choose to use, because IT IS THEIR BODY! I also know how hard it is to use multi-ply gear, and I have seen the crowds at the Arnold and the excitment that is there, people come to see monsters and freaks move monster weights, and why not it is a great show. George

Jim i have been lifting for a lot of years as I am 70 years old , and let me say that most of the trouble is lifters on drugs that try to lift in drug free meets . As to your Question about lifters being suspended, yes we do know of quiite a few in the usapl. PaPa Smurff many times National @ World Champion

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
Lifters useing steroids are a fact of the game.We ALL need to accept that and move on.A federation can most certianlly have it all.I think a test should be mandatory for the drug free classes.We all want to see the big weights being lifted,so why dont we ALL support this crazy sport we love!!!But to badmouth either side is crazy.United we stand,Divided we fall.

Submitted by mastermonster on
The AAPF quite often has failed drug tests and does not have a lenient policies. One fail and you are out for life. You have to compete in the APF only after a failed test. The Fed respects the rights of their athletes privicy and does not smear them in public as some feds do. Only the executive committee and the athlete failing are notified and if the banned lifter tries to enter another AAPF meet they would risk being banned from the APF also. That's the reason you don't hear of lifters being banned there. They respect the right to privacy and I respect that. They are very serious about keeping the AAPF and AWPC as drug free as possible and several lifters are caught in an average year, either intentionally cheating or using OTC sups that run there T/E ratio higher than the allowed 6:1 ratio. Either way a fail is a fail and the lifter must move on to the pro division to lift in the APF/WPC. I hope this clears it up a little as to why it may not seem to the public that the AAPF testing system is not catching anyone; it is. No excuses! Just lift it!

Submitted by admin on
[quote=mastermonster]The AAPF quite often has failed drug tests and does not have a lenient policies. One fail and you are out for life. You have to compete in the APF only after a failed test. The Fed respects the rights of their athletes privicy and does not smear them in public as some feds do. Only the executive committee and the athlete failing are notified and if the banned lifter tries to enter another AAPF meet they would risk being banned from the APF also. That's the reason you don't hear of lifters being banned there. They respect the right to privacy and I respect that. They are very serious about keeping the AAPF and AWPC as drug free as possible and several lifters are caught in an average year, either intentionally cheating or using OTC sups that run there T/E ratio higher than the allowed 6:1 ratio. Either way a fail is a fail and the lifter must move on to the pro division to lift in the APF/WPC. I hope this clears it up a little as to why it may not seem to the public that the AAPF testing system is not catching anyone; it is. No excuses! Just lift it![/quote] Do you think they should at least publish the number of failures in some way, even if keeping names out of it? Along with it, might publicizing the number of tests conducted at every meet lend more credibility to their testing?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
ANY federation that claims to test in reality MUST PUBLICIZE THE FAILED LIFTERS. This is the ONLY deterrent to being part of that federation or failing drug tests. IF they quietly kick someone out, this means NOTHING. If you fail to have a letter from the LAB saying YES THIS FEDERATION DID THIS MANY ACTUAL TESTS, rather than just saying you test, THEN YOU DIDN"T PAY AND DO THE TESTS. There have been certain "TESTED" feds around that POUR THE PEE INTO A GUTTER rather than SEND IT TO THE LAB> After all, THIS COSTS MONEY. The OLYMPICS even did so with FAMOUS people they had around, they called it a "SINK TEST". As in collect it BUT DO NOT TEST IT. Those that actually test and suspend and actually CARE, post the failures publicly FOR ALL TO SEE. This is the ONLY measure a lifter has to KNOW that federation doesn't just talk about testing but PERFORMS it. Without that sort of enforcement, it's just talk. you can start any fed you like, with Natural or Drug free in the name....