Hatfield's 1014 Squat: Was Moving the Racks Innovative or Something Else?

Sat, 05/15/2010 - 05:25 -- admin
Yes, Moving the Squat Racks Was Innovative and Changed It For the Better
51% (470 votes)
No, Moving the Squat Racks Opened The Squat Up To Further Interpretation; and thus Changed it for the Worse
49% (446 votes)
Total votes: 916

Comments

Submitted by chip big hoot edalgo (not verified) on
i understand the history and tradition of stepping back with the weight ,but in terms of safety is it really necessary? it's about the squat not the set up. all the extra movement just increases the risk of injury.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
i think it depends on the times, and what was acceptable at that point . It certainly seems odd to move the rack like that. He did the one sidestep, so i bet he probably couldve walked it out if he had to.

Submitted by Team McCloskey on
FOR THAT TIME PEROID IN THE SPORT OF POWERLIFTING,THIS WAS MIND BOGGLING, MOVE RACKS OR NOT,THIS WAS A GREAT LIFT AND NO MATTER HOW ITS CRITIQUED, HE WILL ALWAYS BE A LENGEND AND AN AMBASSADOR TO THE SPORT.HENSE THE NAME "DR. SQUAT" PROUDLY SPONSORED BY WEST CARY BARBELL AND UNBREAKABLE GEAR, TEAM MCCLOSKEY.

Submitted by Matt Christie (not verified) on
I have never understood what was wrong with a mono or moving the racks. I get the relationship between the walk out and the squat. I will be the first to admit it adds a degree of difficult to the lift. But have you not always been allowed a lift off in the bench? Have you not always had help re-racking a squat? Heres a question-What's the difference in a bench hand-off and a mono-lift for the squat? Not trying to start any thing, just a little discussion, before anyone gets pissed.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
[quote=Matt Christie]I have never understood what was wrong with a mono or moving the racks. I get the relationship between the walk out and the squat. I will be the first to admit it adds a degree of difficult to the lift. But have you not always been allowed a lift off in the bench? Have you not always had help re-racking a squat? Heres a question-What's the difference in a bench hand-off and a mono-lift for the squat? Not trying to start any thing, just a little discussion, before anyone gets pissed.[/quote] a hand off in the bench is different because with a mono lift, you can set up in the exact position you will use to squat the weight. getting a bench hand off is slightly harder because you don't stay in one position. the arms move.

Submitted by michael tillotson (not verified) on
my benches get handed to me and i walk out my squats. i see nothing wrong with a monolift squat. why waist energy on the set up? my training partner squats wide, i squat more shoulder width. it's easier for me to set up, i don't have the extra steps in my set as he does. i can see how a monolift would benefit one's numbers. it's all about the lift and the weight you put up, plain and simple.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
The person who said "what was acceptable at that time" has a great point. There are many things in sports and outside of sports that were done yesterday that we would never do today. I have no problem with Hatfield taking the squat the way he did. I also have no problem with a monolift, and I walk my squat out. (However I only squat 600-a big difference when you are squatting the big stuff) I lift USPF so we do not use a monolift, but who cares? I love the fact that we have options.

Submitted by Stebbins on
Seeing a walk out with some HUGE weight is pretty Bad Ass! I still cringe during the lift though. That is a lot of stress on the knees! For the safty of the lifter, I prefer the moving of the racks, or a monolift.

Submitted by Anthony Carlquist (not verified) on
You know what is funny if you mention this on Dr. Squats board people get real defensive and say it never happened.

Submitted by Luke Corcoran (not verified) on
For me powerlifting is a sport about moving a weight from A to B and back to A. Its what you do in the bench and the deadlift so why we feel the need in the squat to have it any other way is beyond me.

Submitted by Michael M. (not verified) on
A question that occurs to me is "Was this done for anyone else in that competition? Was this option offered to the other lifters?" If not, then this was a bad idea that gave Fred an unfair advantage. I have no problem with the walkout being eliminated, but it should be done equally for all lifters in a meet.

Submitted by hornedn on
[quote=Michael M.]A question that occurs to me is "Was this done for anyone else in that competition? Was this option offered to the other lifters?" If not, then this was a bad idea that gave Fred an unfair advantage. I have no problem with the walkout being eliminated, but it should be done equally for all lifters in a meet. [/quote] The record breaker's meet was more of an exhibition than an actual meet. The lifter's were there, by invitation, to break specific records with certified judges. It was alot like an all-star game for powerlifting at the time. I remember as a teenager watching this on TV. I believe it was on ABC's Wide World of Sports but I'm not sure of that. Ted Arcidi and Anthony Clark are some of the other lifters that stick in my mind from these events.

Submitted by Jeff Hackett 1 on
[quote=Michael M.]A question that occurs to me is "Was this done for anyone else in that competition? Was this option offered to the other lifters?" If not, then this was a bad idea that gave Fred an unfair advantage. I have no problem with the walkout being eliminated, but it should be done equally for all lifters in a meet. [/quote] Agreed, I have mixed feelings on this. I always felt that it is the lift that matters most not the setup or re-racking but back then all squats were walked out so I think this was an unfair advantage. Who is to say he would have made it if he walked it out, if I was him I would have walked it out. I think everyone should lift in a power rack and lift it by themselves without 5 spotters huggin you or the weights all the way up and down. I lift alone and I squat just fine without anyone spotting me and if I get stuck I set it down on the bars and try again. I agree with phreak as well, too many people on the platform. Jeff Hackett.

Submitted by phreak on
First poll question that I am really having difficulty with. Good job! My take: yes, it was innovative. And as someone mentioned earlier: if the option was there for all lifters that day, then at least it was fair. But I do think that in general it set a wrong precedent. Not necessarily about walking out yes or no, but the precedent of needing a shitload of people on the platform. Only 10 years before this historic squat, the lifter was often (if not always) the only man on the platform. No spotters obscuring the view, nobody to get hurt if the lifter dumped the bar. Watch Reinhoudt's epic squats for a graphic illustration of this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFiO4rgq_tY So from a participant's perspective nothing much changed by Hatfield's lift. But from a spectator and judging standpoint a lot changed that day, and IMO not for the better.

Submitted by Phil Bryson (not verified) on
He unracks it, and steps out. Not much different from a walk out from what I can see. Certainly a ways away from a mono. Also, now a days you can train with a mono and get used to setting up under it so you don't need to adjust. I really doubt Fred had people moving the racks for him in the gym so he could practice setting up for it. It doesn't take anything at all away from the lift.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
I like how hatfield feels that when he is using the latest gear even though others think it should be banned that is ok, but he has a problem with today's gear. Then he goes on to talk about squat depth, which is a legitimate issue, but his 1014 looked questionable on depth. I think the move from the hatfield era gear and loose judging is about the same as the difference between hatfield's gear and that of his predecessors as well as the standard of lifting. There were people in hatfield's day that felt the same about his lifting as he does about many lifters today. Before anyone starts a triade against gearwhores i want to clarify that I lift raw, and just think that it is somewhat hipocrytical of older lifters who tried any way they could to push the bounds of what was acceptable to the point that their style of lifting became the new acceptable, and when some new guys come along and push that further they react negatively.

Submitted by Barrett Marum on
[quote=Anonymous]I like how hatfield feels that when he is using the latest gear even though others think it should be banned that is ok, but he has a problem with today's gear. Then he goes on to talk about squat depth, which is a legitimate issue, but his 1014 looked questionable on depth. I think the move from the hatfield era gear and loose judging is about the same as the difference between hatfield's gear and that of his predecessors as well as the standard of lifting. There were people in hatfield's day that felt the same about his lifting as he does about many lifters today. Before anyone starts a triade against gearwhores i want to clarify that I lift raw, and just think that it is somewhat hipocrytical of older lifters who tried any way they could to push the bounds of what was acceptable to the point that their style of lifting became the new acceptable, and when some new guys come along and push that further they react negatively.[/quote] I felt exactly the same way when I read his interview in PLUSA.

Submitted by Fattest Illinoi... on
[quote=Barrett Marum][quote=Anonymous]I like how hatfield feels that when he is using the latest gear even though others think it should be banned that is ok, but he has a problem with today's gear. Then he goes on to talk about squat depth, which is a legitimate issue, but his 1014 looked questionable on depth. I think the move from the hatfield era gear and loose judging is about the same as the difference between hatfield's gear and that of his predecessors as well as the standard of lifting. There were people in hatfield's day that felt the same about his lifting as he does about many lifters today. Before anyone starts a triade against gearwhores i want to clarify that I lift raw, and just think that it is somewhat hipocrytical of older lifters who tried any way they could to push the bounds of what was acceptable to the point that their style of lifting became the new acceptable, and when some new guys come along and push that further they react negatively.[/quote] I felt exactly the same way when I read his interview in PLUSA.[/quote] agreed.... 20 years from now I'll be complaining about all the young whipper-snappers using whatever gear is hot at that time and waxing poetic about the good old days of 3-ply canvas suits with 3-ply briefs underneath..... you can't blame the guy, but instead of feeling cheated he should be happy people still remember him and value his opinion still today even though I haven't seen him in a meet helping, promoting, or lifting during my few years in the sport.....

Submitted by John M King (not verified) on
If I recall, Fred had failed to fully tighten his belt before that lift..either way, it was trully a "Metal Moment", in Powerlifting!

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
To all who are against the moving of racks or the monolift, why dont you clean and jerk the weight and then lie backwards for the bench press, really now grow up and change with the times period.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
I totally agree, the Marys and Sallys out there complaining are probably 500 lb squatters, long live the Monolift

Submitted by hourlywage on
[quote=Anonymous]I totally agree, the Marys and Sallys out there complaining are probably 500 lb squatters, long live the Monolift[/quote] Every sport under the sun has evolved with technology to make the sport have higher performances. cinder tracks and dugouts turned into hard rubber and starting blocks. swimming gets shark suits and angled launch boxes. golf gets graphite shafts and 400cc heads. Football gets... we get it. in any other sport, advancement is seen as just that. advancement. I see the people complaining about powerlifting as high jumpers still running straight towards the high jump and some of us are using the fosbury flop. at some point, this train is moving with or without you. What Hatfield did was use a monolift before there was a monolift. and there is nothing wrong with that. who gives a shit, he still squatted 1000lbs.

Submitted by IFG98 on
My golf driver is 460 cc's guess im a golf gear whore! [quote=hourlywage][quote=Anonymous]I totally agree, the Marys and Sallys out there complaining are probably 500 lb squatters, long live the Monolift[/quote] Every sport under the sun has evolved with technology to make the sport have higher performances. cinder tracks and dugouts turned into hard rubber and starting blocks. swimming gets shark suits and angled launch boxes. golf gets graphite shafts and 400cc heads. Football gets... we get it. in any other sport, advancement is seen as just that. advancement. I see the people complaining about powerlifting as high jumpers still running straight towards the high jump and some of us are using the fosbury flop. at some point, this train is moving with or without you. What Hatfield did was use a monolift before there was a monolift. and there is nothing wrong with that. who gives a shit, he still squatted 1000lbs. [/quote]

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
The monolift sucks. Its big metal contraption. If some smart engineer made an ER rack that had a hinge on it to move back and forth that would be better for the lifter, audience and the meet director.

Submitted by Anthony Carlquist (not verified) on
[quote=Anonymous]The monolift sucks. Its big metal contraption. If some smart engineer made an ER rack that had a hinge on it to move back and forth that would be better for the lifter, audience and the meet director. [/quote] I really wish they would make something like that. Elitefts makes a bad ass Panzer Monolift that would be fantastic for the audience to watch. Makes it expensive for a meet director because not only do you need one for the stage but you need them in the warm up room.

Submitted by hourlywage on
My comment was edited? ETA: fair enough... the other people's posts were edited to change it. good work.

Submitted by Billy Boy (not verified) on
I don't have a problem with the monolift until lifters use it to get in a squat stance that wouldn't ever be possible without one. The monolift is one of the reasons for the depth problems that we have today in our sport. It is allowing guys to set up in a stance that won't allow them to reach a legal depth.

Submitted by jdesja2 on
[quote=Billy Boy]I don't have a problem with the monolift until lifters use it to get in a squat stance that wouldn't ever be possible without one. The monolift is one of the reasons for the depth problems that we have today in our sport. It is allowing guys to set up in a stance that won't allow them to reach a legal depth. [/quote] I like this comment. There would be no safe way to use super wide stances with the really heavy weights if it weren't for the monolift. Monolifts definitely make the platform look cluttered and ugly. The simplicity of a stand in juxtaposition to extraordinary feats of stregth make watching powerlifting more enjoyable IMO.

Submitted by BillDuncan on
I think moving the rack was innovative and look where it's brought us, but that particular video looks like it was pretty dangerous for Fred (and others).

Submitted by traininpain on
If I am not mistaken, Hatfield had the racks moved because it made the squat part easier(obviously), and (more importantly)there was no specific rule against it. I think a rule about walking the squat out came after his record squat. Someone who is big on powerlifting history might know more about that...Anyone??? I was wondering how long it would take for someone to comment about his depth. Looked parallel to me. But either way, good enough for that time. I would agree, Fred pushed the limits at that time.

Submitted by admin on
Hey guys. This is just a reminder to stay on topic. The topic at hand is moving the racks in Mr. Hatfield's squat. I don't want this to turn into a debate on the gear of yesteryear vs. the gear of today; and how one of the legends of our sport feels about it now. Let's get back to the topic. Thanks.

Submitted by hourlywage on
[quote=admin]Hey guys. This is just a reminder to stay on topic. The topic at hand is moving the racks in Mr. Hatfield's squat. I don't want this to turn into a debate on the gear of yesteryear vs. the gear of today; and how one of the legends of our sport feels about it now. Let's get back to the topic. Thanks.[/quote] That is a rough thing to do. Hat is known for two things: being a good squatter, and complaining about the rule boundaries that he pushed, vs the rule boundaries that we are pushing. The homemade monolift and gear debates are essentially one in the same in this situation, and only this situation. they are about both pushing the boundaries of the rules for the time. In all fairness, this is the most civil gear debate that has ever happened on this site.

Submitted by artmenton on
I truly feel he could have made that lift without moving the racks. If the racks were made to make it easier for him, then it was an unfair advantage and to me taints the quality of a magnificent effort!

Submitted by JeffM on
Maybe they moved the racks so you could see the lift and get some of the spotters out of the way. 2c

Submitted by Eric Armstrong on
I think moving the racks was irrelevant. He was incredible. If anything, it's actually really impressive how long he had to hold the weight while the guy tried frantically to reposition the one rack after the lift. In this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs4AZsBkUgM he walks out 1008 and hits it clean. The guy is, was, and always will be a legitimate legend. Eric A

Submitted by Jeff Lafferty on
It doesn't appear that Fred gained any advantage in moving the racks. If anything, it made re-racking the weight problematic. For my money, this is the most impressive squat I have seen on video. Doc gives back a lot to the sport, his knowledge and passion are available to all who take the time to read through his articles or interact on his web site.

Submitted by Aaron Gibes on
I guess the issue I have is that they more than likely did not do that for anyone else (I guess no one else probably asked either). Level playing field? Regardless, it seems that he took a few steps anyways, so what was the point of moving the racks?

Submitted by Brian J Shaw on
I see nothing wrong in moving the racks. I have seen too many good lifters get hurt or fall while walking the weight out of the racks, where a monolift could have saved them and made for great lifts. His epic squat was and still is an huge milestone in Powerlifting history. If anything, he held that weight a long time while trying to re-rack.

Submitted by April Mathis on
I don't think it takes away from the lift, but that other lifters at the meet should have the same option if something like that is done (which I have no idea if they did or not). This was probably one of the first steps in leading to the invention and use of monolifts. And monolifts have been one of the greatest inventions in powerlifting as far as safety in my opinion, especially with very heavy weight.