Knee Wraps

Raw

52% (1149 votes)

Not Raw

48% (1080 votes)

Total votes: 2229

Comments

I don't believe that lifts

I don't believe that lifts done in knee wraps should be compared to those that are done without knee wraps. One clearly adds an advantage over the other. However, I certainly don't want to diminish the accomplishments of those that choose to use knee wraps. How about: Raw-without wraps Raw-with wraps Respectfully, Eric Talmant www.rawunitymeet.com www.erictalmant.com CITIUS,ALTIUS,FORTIUS Proudly Sponsored By: BMF Sports Ultra Life, Inc. Critical Bench Titan Support Systems APT Pro

My opinion is knee wraps

My opinion is knee wraps give you a sense of security, around the knee cap, and tendons and ligaments, if you squat 300 lbs for 5 reps with no wraps, but you can do conditioning work with 300 lbs, for 10 reps x 2 sets, it will help to establish a good foundation, a little sooner, i've been squating for 33 years, with wraps, only on work sets, and it has allowed me to stay injury free! Jose perez-- 765 squat 1990's, single ply, and 688 squat at 148 single ply 1990's

two different things...

two different things... anything that helps add to ur lift should be considered different

What about a belt?

Where does it end. I guess

Where does it end. I guess if we look hard enough we will find something we can do, that others can't Lets make the rules the same in all contests, then equipment won't be a big issue

Knee wraps are RAW. We have

Knee wraps are RAW. We have a precedent of using knee wraps from DAY ONE in this Sport. 1964. Why deviate from what our founding legends did back at the origins of our sport? Jake Gunter

Jacob S. Gunter wrote:Knee

mastermonster wrote:Jacob S.

[quote=mastermonster][quote=Jacob S. Gunter]Knee wraps are RAW. We have a precedent of using knee wraps from DAY ONE in this Sport. 1964. Why deviate from what our founding legends did back at the origins of our sport? Jake Gunter[/quote] Ditto.[/quote] KNEE WRAPS AND A BELT IS GEAR! WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO BE SAID!

Using knee wraps or belts,is

Using knee wraps or belts,is not lifting RAW.Any type of equipment that helps a lifter,lift more weight,is not RAW! ote=Jacob S. Gunter]Knee wraps are RAW. We have a precedent of using knee wraps from DAY ONE in this Sport. 1964. Why deviate from what our founding legends did back at the origins of our sport? Jake Gunter[/quote]

Jacob S. Gunter wrote:Knee

[quote=Jacob S. Gunter]Knee wraps are RAW. We have a precedent of using knee wraps from DAY ONE in this Sport. 1964. Why deviate from what our founding legends did back at the origins of our sport? Jake Gunter[/quote] Sorry, but those were old Ace bandages, at best. Huge difference from what is on the market now being sold as wraps. THEN, they added jean shorts, sheets, etc. to add to the lift. So, let's not get too carried away with saying the founders of the sport were solidly "raw". As for me, I got support from both wraps and a belt. I know for a fact that I felt more solid squatting with a belt than I did without. Depending on how tight I wrapped, I got more from knee wraps than without. So, I guess by that, I suppose my definition of raw is nothing-no belt or wraps.

How many of these people

How many of these people that say raw is without a belt, actually compete? I mean really. It's not like you see many going out there without a belt for squat and deadlift. It's always the guys doing "ass to the grass" with 2 plates. haha!

Anonymous wrote:How many of

[quote=Anonymous]How many of these people that say raw is without a belt, actually compete? I mean really. It's not like you see many going out there without a belt for squat and deadlift. It's always the guys doing "ass to the grass" with 2 plates. haha! [/quote] Ditto again! I'd venture to say that most of the "No knee wraps in raw" voters are not competitors, or have not been lifting long enough to have built their squats past 3-400 lbs. or so.

First wearing knee wraps and

First wearing knee wraps and a belt is raw. I mean what amount of weight do you think wraps can give 50-75 LBS at best lets not say they give more. I do respect all of the guys who choose not to wear wraps as well as the guys who do. As well as the single ply and multi ply guys and girls who choose to lift where they want. As for me I am going to be lifting raw in the future and that means wearing wraps if the fed allows them as well as if it does not just my choice. However back when I dumped the 1052 (APF Seniors 2003).My training without the wraps as well as with them I believe help me out with my injury not being as severe.

First off I agree that knee

First off I agree that knee wraps and belt is raw. I have lifted some in the 90s in AAU meets here in the midwest with no knee wraps and to me it is not real safe. I am 45 now and would not lift in a raw meet if you could not wrap the knee. Like someone said above knee wraps were there from day one. This is not Olympic lifting. I am getting ready to lift in a raw meet for the APA and they let you use wraps. If not why not just put on single ply gear. I am not sure why this is even in question because all of the raw rankings are done where you can use wraps. Maybe the feds that do not want to use wraps should take another look at it and let the use wraps. Just my opinion. Ken Ufford

Ken,the issue is RAW lifters

Ken,the issue is RAW lifters complain about squat suits,and benchshirts,but they dont believe they are getting any help out of knee wraps and belts.You have been lifting for 20 plus years.you know knee wraps can give you 75 pds in your squat. RAW is using nothing but a singlet,or your equipeted. Plain and simple [quote=Ken Ufford]First off I agree that knee wraps and belt is raw. I have lifted some in the 90s in AAU meets here in the midwest with no knee wraps and to me it is not real safe. I am 45 now and would not lift in a raw meet if you could not wrap the knee. Like someone said above knee wraps were there from day one. This is not Olympic lifting. I am getting ready to lift in a raw meet for the APA and they let you use wraps. If not why not just put on single ply gear. I am not sure why this is even in question because all of the raw rankings are done where you can use wraps. Maybe the feds that do not want to use wraps should take another look at it and let the use wraps. Just my opinion. Ken Ufford[/quote]

Also before you go and have

Also before you go and have rankings for raw with wraps and raw with no wraps how about a teen and master rankings. Ken Ufford

Ken Ufford wrote:Also before

[quote=Ken Ufford]Also before you go and have rankings for raw with wraps and raw with no wraps how about a teen and master rankings. Ken Ufford[/quote] That is all coming.

they are both raw...like

they are both raw...like eric states it's simply one with wraps and one without... now the question is should wraps be the standard of raw? that I cannot answer...but in my opinion are both 2 different standards

I like the wraps for safety

I like the wraps for safety of my knees and less pain when training. They should be considered raw.

This is just my opinion but

This is just my opinion but knee wraps and wrist wraps are essentially the same thing right? just used on different parts of the body to support different bones and ligaments under heavier weight then what your body is accustomed to stabilizing on its own right? so if feds out there make you enter their meet as equipped if you wear knee wraps why do they let you enter raw if you are a bench specialist but use wrist wraps? If you have a squat/DL suit on or bench shirt then you are equipped. Knee wraps are still raw

I know some people that get

I know some people that get 40 kilograms from their wraps, not really raw is it?:D

With respect, knee wraps are

With respect, knee wraps are no way at all raw. I squated 495 the other day with just a belt and grinded it to get it, and then threw on knee wraps and got 540 with another 10-15 lbs. in the tank. That's a 45 lb. jump. Pretty soon you will have people saying that this new sling shot should be raw because they have bad shoulders and it just a support and for safety....If you want to call it for safety reasons or because you have an injury, they should have it where you can only use 24-30 inch cotton wraps or basic knee sleeves. Also, no way can you call a belt in the same catagory as knee wraps. You don't have to have someone put your belt on like the way these guys are with 2.5 meter wraps where your legs are as stiff as board when you squat.

I agree with most of what

I agree with most of what was said. I think raw should follow more of what some call "classic" i.e what has been around since the beginning, belt, wrist wraps, knee wraps. Yes of course you lift more with that, but I think (my opinion completely) that the foundational idea of seperating raw and equipped is to eliminate the learning curve associated with equipment. There are different ways to do a knee wrap, mostly based on preference, but there really isnt much technique. Same with belt and wrist wraps. There is correct placement, and thats about as fancy as it gets. Knee wraps provide no safety mechanism, and thats a fact thats been proven in a few studies, but you sure feel "tighter and safer" with them on, not to mention the extra rebound you get out of the hole. Belt is also mostly a performance booster, by helping maximize the intrathecal pressure from the valsalva maneuver it "protects" your back, but that extra stability also helps you generate more force through your core from your hips into the barbell. If there was one of the three that is purely safety I would say its the wrist wrap, just from keeping longevity in your wrists and elbow for your powerlifting career especially obviously in the bench press. So overall I think the honest root of seperating raw vs. equipped was to seperate the learning curve. I think all lifters should develop their raw lifting skills fully before (should they choose to) moving into equipment, mainly to maximize the effectiveness of that equipment i.e the guy who benches 225x1 raw and is wearing a 2 ply shirt...you better be in the 165's :-) so yes to knee wraps, wrist wraps and belt, lets make it a friendly entry point for more people to try out powerlifting and not feel overwhelmed by needing to learn equipment, but at least they get to use some "equipment" to make it fun, for as cheesy as that sounds.

THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER!

THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE!

swestwood148 wrote:THE MORE

[quote=swestwood148]THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE![/quote] somebodys not to happy with their RAW lifts i see!!!

.

joecool wrote:swestwood148

[quote=joecool][quote=swestwood148]THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE! THE MORE GEAR THE BETTER! GEAR FOR LIFE![/quote] somebodys not to happy with their RAW lifts i see!!![/quote] RAW POWERLIFTING AND EQUIPPED POWERLIFTING ARE 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS! KEEP TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ME AND MY NUMBERS OR ANYTHING AT ALL, IT WON'T CHANGE THE WAY I LIFT ON THE PLATFORM OR THE WAY I LIVE MY LIFE! BUT GOOD LUCK ON YOUR NEXT TRAINING SESSION!

Wraps were made and used for

Wraps were made and used for safety purposes like belts to protect body parts being used for the lift and not to add poundages. Raw is such an over-used term. One should be able to use wraps and a belt to protect their knees, hernia's, wrists and so on. The problem with lifting now is squat suits, bench shirts and deadlift suits that add hundreds of pounds and are not used for safety purposes but for excess poundages. So now we have people saying that they get X amount out of wraps. Wraps/belts vs. suits is a whole different ball game. I don't like the term "raw" because no one can agree what raw is. In my opinion like stated above with others if you use wraps or a belt it should be "raw" or some other term. Every week I read this board someone is breaking someone's record or you have some ridiculous numbers by lifters who use a ton of gear to get that number and we all know if they only used wraps and a belt they would not be close to that. Look at raw benches/squats that use only wraps and a belt and you will see what I am talking about. So maybe we call "assisted" lifting for suits and shirts. And "non assisted" for wraps only lifting. Let's get rid of "raw" terminology since we can't agree on what raw is. I've never heard of anyone getting hundreds of pounds from wraps or a belt.

Not to take away from ANY

Not to take away from ANY lifter but I can't bring myself to consider knee wraps raw. I know guys who get 80-100 lbs out of wraps. I think Eric Talmant had a good point with "raw with wraps" and "raw without wraps", think that'd be a good idea. I don't think you can argue about wraps being used in the beginning of powerlifting because weren't they just ace wraps? This is just my opinion, and to be honest, I don't care what kind of equipment anyone else wears as long as I'm lifting how I want.

Adam Carter wrote:Not to

[quote=Adam Carter]Not to take away from ANY lifter but I can't bring myself to consider knee wraps raw. I know guys who get 80-100 lbs out of wraps. I think Eric Talmant had a good point with "raw with wraps" and "raw without wraps", think that'd be a good idea. I don't think you can argue about wraps being used in the beginning of powerlifting because weren't they just ace wraps? This is just my opinion, and to be honest, I don't care what kind of equipment anyone else wears as long as I'm lifting how I want. [/quote] I totally disagree...guys originally started wearing knee wraps because they realized they could lift more weight with them. It started with ace bandages, then they started making them out of "jock strap" waist bandages, then they started started using wraps with half cut tennis balls behind their knees. Trust me, this wasn't to keep their knees safe....it was to lift more weight don't kid yourself!

Raw should be no wraps of

Raw should be no wraps of any kind and no belt or any kind of supportive gear whatsoever. Jeff Hackett. ULTIMATE SIZE, STRENGTH, AND STAMINA www.fitstep.com www.extremeselfprotection.com

Wraps were made and used for

Wraps were made and used for safety purposes like belts to protect body parts being used for the lift and not to add poundages It doesn't matter what the stated or intended purpose is supposed to be. They add pounds and lots of them. Suits add safety to the hips and shirts absolutely add stability and safety to the shoulders, thats why we use gear, but there is no doubt at all that they add plenty of pounds. How about: Raw-without wraps Raw-with wraps How about RAW without gear, and RAW with gear? :) sponsored by Lifting Large.

Lifting Raw or Equipped is a

Lifting Raw or Equipped is a choice. I lift Raw by choice. Using knee wraps is NOT a choice for me anymore. It is a necessity. Obviously, using belt and wraps is not 100% Raw by definition. However, using minimal protective gear when lifting is common sense. It protects the lifter from injury and prolongs his time in the sport. I will not take a high risk by squatting maximal weight without wraps just to prove a point. It would not be smart. I believe that most of the "philosophers" who declare wraps should not be considered RAW have not squatted 4 plates+ in training every week for 20 years and are still able to do so without wraps. If anyone does, I envy him. Frank Wacker

Frank Wacker wrote:Lifting

[quote=Frank Wacker]Lifting Raw or Equipped is a choice. I lift Raw by choice. Using knee wraps is NOT a choice for me anymore. It is a necessity. Obviously, using belt and wraps is not 100% Raw by definition. However, using minimal protective gear when lifting is common sense. It protects the lifter from injury and prolongs his time in the sport. I will not take a high risk by squatting maximal weight without wraps just to prove a point. It would not be smart. I believe that most of the "philosophers" who declare wraps should not be considered RAW have not squatted 4 plates+ in training every week for 20 years and are still able to do so without wraps. If anyone does, I envy him. Frank Wacker[/quote] I've been competing for 20 years and don't use a belt or wraps in training or in comp. And, I've done 500# x 8 ATG in the 220# class and squated 578 in a USAPL meet. So, the arguement that only beginers lift raw is flawed.

RAW = no wraps, no

RAW = no wraps, no belt something else = belt and wraps something else = shirts and suits Raw is cool if you can do it. Wraps and belts are universally accepted as being standard gym equipment, it's what the originals used, and they keep you safer. Suits and shirts are a different animal altogether, but if you've got bad hips and bad shoulders not sure you have the option of raw or belt and wraps. To some degree I've always looked at it as an evolution...early on when you've got no wear and tear and you aren't handling big weights you can go raw...then once you're handling loads where things start to stress joints/backs you add the belt and wraps...then once you get older and you're carrying more previous injury baggage plus you've gotten stronger and can handle more weight you take a dip into suits and shirts and see if you like them. This may sound retarded but if I trained athletes (like NFL football players) I'd have them train in full gear. They don't need to take any additional damage in the weightroom to their knees, shoulders, hips and backs. Plus, they need to be stronger in that top end of the range of motion of the exercises we do. I think a guy that squats 800 in a suit is going to be alot stronger in sport than a guy who trains raw and never handles anything more than 600. The gear ain't evil and it's certainly doesn't automatically give you tons of extra poundage.

Anonymous wrote:RAW = no

[quote=Anonymous]RAW = no wraps, no belt something else = belt and wraps something else = shirts and suits Raw is cool if you can do it. Wraps and belts are universally accepted as being standard gym equipment, it's what the originals used, and they keep you safer. Suits and shirts are a different animal altogether, but if you've got bad hips and bad shoulders not sure you have the option of raw or belt and wraps. To some degree I've always looked at it as an evolution...early on when you've got no wear and tear and you aren't handling big weights you can go raw...then once you're handling loads where things start to stress joints/backs you add the belt and wraps...then once you get older and you're carrying more previous injury baggage plus you've gotten stronger and can handle more weight you take a dip into suits and shirts and see if you like them. This may sound retarded but if I trained athletes (like NFL football players) I'd have them train in full gear. They don't need to take any additional damage in the weightroom to their knees, shoulders, hips and backs. Plus, they need to be stronger in that top end of the range of motion of the exercises we do. I think a guy that squats 800 in a suit is going to be alot stronger in sport than a guy who trains raw and never handles anything more than 600. The gear ain't evil and it's certainly doesn't automatically give you tons of extra poundage. [/quote] Best post so far in this clusterfuck.

A Squat done with Knee Wraps

A Squat done with Knee Wraps is not RAW. The RAW Classification Standards endorsed by the majority of Powerlifting Federations offering a RAW Divison, do not recognize Knee Wraps being used in competition as RAW. THE HISTORY of RAW POWERLIFTING: RAW POWERLIFTING has nothing to do with the OLD DAYS of our Sport. It was created by Al Siegel in the '90s That's right the President of the ADAU. The idea of RAW was started to make a statement against all the gear being used at the time. The idea was to lift RAW (NO GEAR)...(Thus no Knee Wraps) RAW caught on quick and soon Federations like 100% RAW started-up, only offering RAW Lifting. I wrote the RAW Classification Standards three years ago this month. This was the first time RAW Lifters were able to compare and evaluate where they stood based on a unified set of standards. A belt has always been an option in lifting. Wear one, don't wear one...not up for debate. A belt was looked at the same way as wearing a singlet or lifting shoes. The problem with our sport is it does not have a real governing body that can make decisions that are best for the sport. I have no idea why some Federations, all of a sudden woke up to the RAW movement and instead of going with the flow...meaning using the definition of RAW and its classification standards as agreed upon by the 100% RAW, AAU & ADAU. They decided to add Knee Wraps & call it RAW in their Meets. Again nothing was broke...RAW, as it was originally defined needed NO HELP! RAW Lifters needed no help...Lifters were not getting injured or complaining in the above mentioned federations. Nothing except... Oh yeah...ego. You see if you Squat w/knee wraps you Squat more weight. More is better so lets do it. YES...if you Squat with Knee Wraps you will Squat MORE Weight! THE REAL ISSUE & PROBLEM with KNEE WRAPS in RAW: The current state of Powerlfiting allows lifter's Squats to be ranked in the RAW Division as well as those lifters increased Totals. Apples and Oranges in comparison. Bad for our Sport! Powerlifting has multiple federations. I do not see this changing, nor would I want to debate it. What we need is multiple divisions. This way we're not comparing apples to oranges! First. All federations need to redefine their definition of RAW. To make things right in our sport we need to have 4 divisions. 1. RAW 2. Classic 3. Equipped 4. Xtreme RAW: is just that no gear, Singlet & a Belt. Classic: is where we go back to old school PL. Singlet, wraps, Belt. (No Bench Shirt or Gear) Equipped: Single Ply...Shirt, wraps & Belt. Xtreme: Anything goes. Multi Ply, Canvas anything. RAW needed no help...it was and is doing great! WE WILL NOT BE INVENTING THE WHEEL: Auto Racing, had the same problem. They fixed it to attract more fans & competitors. They fixed it by clearly defining their divisions. We can agree to disagree on a whole lot of things. The need for multiple Divisions is not one of them. POSITIVE ACTIONS from MULTIPLE DIVISIONS: Easier for Fans to follow Easier for Competitors to follow Easier to declare overall Champions Easier to create a fair up to date ranking system. Will lead to more unity in our sport Will allow Feds to have Div. Championships. Will lead to Feds sending Div. Champions to compete in unified World Championships. Even if the top lifters in Divisions don't get to compete on the same platform...the current & clear ranking system that will be established will let all lifters know where they stand in their Divison. We can work together and make our sport stronger. Your Partner in Success, Greg Stott Founder TEAM iXL iXL So Can YOU @ TEAMixl.com

Greg Stott wrote:A Squat

[quote=Greg Stott]A Squat done with Knee Wraps is not RAW. The RAW Classification Standards endorsed by the majority of Powerlifting Federations offering a RAW Divison, do not recognize Knee Wraps being used in competition as RAW. THE HISTORY of RAW POWERLIFTING: RAW POWERLIFTING has nothing to do with the OLD DAYS of our Sport. It was created by Al Siegel in the '90s That's right the President of the ADAU. The idea of RAW was started to make a statement against all the gear being used at the time. The idea was to lift RAW (NO GEAR)...(Thus no Knee Wraps) RAW caught on quick and soon Federations like 100% RAW started-up, only offering RAW Lifting. I wrote the RAW Classification Standards three years ago this month. This was the first time RAW Lifters were able to compare and evaluate where they stood based on a unified set of standards. A belt has always been an option in lifting. Wear one, don't wear one...not up for debate. A belt was looked at the same way as wearing a singlet or lifting shoes. The problem with our sport is it does not have a real governing body that can make decisions that are best for the sport. I have no idea why some Federations, all of a sudden woke up to the RAW movement and instead of going with the flow...meaning using the definition of RAW and its classification standards as agreed upon by the 100% RAW, AAU & ADAU. They decided to add Knee Wraps & call it RAW in their Meets. Again nothing was broke...RAW, as it was originally defined needed NO HELP! RAW Lifters needed no help...Lifters were not getting injured or complaining in the above mentioned federations. Nothing except... Oh yeah...ego. You see if you Squat w/knee wraps you Squat more weight. More is better so lets do it. YES...if you Squat with Knee Wraps you will Squat MORE Weight! THE REAL ISSUE & PROBLEM with KNEE WRAPS in RAW: The current state of Powerlfiting allows lifter's Squats to be ranked in the RAW Division as well as those lifters increased Totals. Apples and Oranges in comparison. Bad for our Sport! Powerlifting has multiple federations. I do not see this changing, nor would I want to debate it. What we need is multiple divisions. This way we're not comparing apples to oranges! First. All federations need to redefine their definition of RAW. To make things right in our sport we need to have 4 divisions. 1. RAW 2. Classic 3. Equipped 4. Xtreme RAW: is just that no gear, Singlet & a Belt. Classic: is where we go back to old school PL. Singlet, wraps, Belt. (No Bench Shirt or Gear) Equipped: Single Ply...Shirt, wraps & Belt. Xtreme: Anything goes. Multi Ply, Canvas anything. RAW needed no help...it was and is doing great! WE WILL NOT BE INVENTING THE WHEEL: Auto Racing, had the same problem. They fixed it to attract more fans & competitors. They fixed it by clearly defining their divisions. We can agree to disagree on a whole lot of things. The need for multiple Divisions is not one of them. POSITIVE ACTIONS from MULTIPLE DIVISIONS: Easier for Fans to follow Easier for Competitors to follow Easier to declare overall Champions Easier to create a fair up to date ranking system. Will lead to more unity in our sport Will allow Feds to have Div. Championships. Will lead to Feds sending Div. Champions to compete in unified World Championships. Even if the top lifters in Divisions don't get to compete on the same platform...the current & clear ranking system that will be established will let all lifters know where they stand in their Divison. We can work together and make our sport stronger. Your Partner in Success, Greg Stott Founder TEAM iXL iXL So Can YOU @ TEAMixl.com [/quote] Good post Greg. Eric Talmant

Greg Stott wrote:A Squat

Greg Stott wrote:Greg Stott

[quote=Greg Stott][quote=Greg Stott]A Squat done with Knee Wraps is not RAW. The RAW Classification Standards endorsed by the majority of Powerlifting Federations offering a RAW Divison, do not recognize Knee Wraps being used in competition as RAW. THE HISTORY of RAW POWERLIFTING: RAW POWERLIFTING has nothing to do with the OLD DAYS of our Sport. It was created by Al Siegel in the '90s That's right the President of the ADAU. The idea of RAW was started to make a statement against all the gear being used at the time. The idea was to lift RAW (NO GEAR)...(Thus no Knee Wraps) RAW caught on quick and soon Federations like 100% RAW started-up, only offering RAW Lifting. I wrote the RAW Classification Standards three years ago this month. This was the first time RAW Lifters were able to compare and evaluate where they stood based on a unified set of standards. A belt has always been an option in lifting. Wear one, don't wear one...not up for debate. A belt was looked at the same way as wearing a singlet or lifting shoes. The problem with our sport is it does not have a real governing body that can make decisions that are best for the sport. I have no idea why some Federations, all of a sudden woke up to the RAW movement and instead of going with the flow...meaning using the definition of RAW and its classification standards as agreed upon by the 100% RAW, AAU & ADAU. They decided to add Knee Wraps & call it RAW in their Meets. Again nothing was broke...RAW, as it was originally defined needed NO HELP! RAW Lifters needed no help...Lifters were not getting injured or complaining in the above mentioned federations. Nothing except... Oh yeah...ego. You see if you Squat w/knee wraps you Squat more weight. More is better so lets do it. YES...if you Squat with Knee Wraps you will Squat MORE Weight! THE REAL ISSUE & PROBLEM with KNEE WRAPS in RAW: The current state of Powerlfiting allows lifter's Squats to be ranked in the RAW Division as well as those lifters increased Totals. Apples and Oranges in comparison. Bad for our Sport! Powerlifting has multiple federations. I do not see this changing, nor would I want to debate it. What we need is multiple divisions. This way we're not comparing apples to oranges! First. All federations need to redefine their definition of RAW. To make things right in our sport we need to have 4 divisions. 1. RAW 2. Classic 3. Equipped 4. Xtreme RAW: is just that no gear, Singlet & a Belt. Classic: is where we go back to old school PL. Singlet, wraps, Belt. (No Bench Shirt or Gear) Equipped: Single Ply...Shirt, wraps & Belt. Xtreme: Anything goes. Multi Ply, Canvas anything. RAW needed no help...it was and is doing great! WE WILL NOT BE INVENTING THE WHEEL: Auto Racing, had the same problem. They fixed it to attract more fans & competitors. They fixed it by clearly defining their divisions. We can agree to disagree on a whole lot of things. The need for multiple Divisions is not one of them. POSITIVE ACTIONS from MULTIPLE DIVISIONS: Easier for Fans to follow Easier for Competitors to follow Easier to declare overall Champions Easier to create a fair up to date ranking system. Will lead to more unity in our sport Will allow Feds to have Div. Championships. Will lead to Feds sending Div. Champions to compete in unified World Championships. Even if the top lifters in Divisions don't get to compete on the same platform...the current & clear ranking system that will be established will let all lifters know where they stand in their Divison. We can work together and make our sport stronger. Your Partner in Success, Greg Stott Founder TEAM iXL iXL So Can YOU @ TEAMixl.com [/quote] I know my post is long...but read it...you might just be surprised that it does not point fingers and even offers a solution to a real problem in our sport. The Need to Define a Division Explained: We are a sport. When you're a sport, the athletes that compete in that sport set records. They don't move the net higher in Basketball because people are dunking so easy. They don't extend the football field when somebody runs a kickoff back 100 yards. In Auto Racing, records are not compared in the Stock & Modified Divisions. This really is not complicated. Lift with Knee Wraps if you feel it works for you. The issue is not whether to lift with wraps or not to lift with wraps...it's that you can't compare the two Squats and the bump from wraps effects the Total. So in short, because of not defining divisions in our sport, we have taken away a key aspect of sport...which is the ability to set records. If you want to lift with gear...then you can lift in the Equipped Div. or the Xtreme Div. If you want to wear wraps then you'll be lifting in the Classic Div. & if you want to battle the weight with only using a Belt (Optional) then you will be lifting RAW. By defining divisions, it will not just help us solve the RAW Debate, equipped lifters will benefit as well. Most importantly, it will be good for Powerlifting! - Greg Stott Founder TEAM iXL iXL So Can YOU @ TEAMiXL.com[/quote] ---What division is knee sleeves? Why? ---What division is wrist wraps? Why? ---What division is mono? Why? ---What division is single ply with briefs? Why? ---What division is single ply with mono? Why? ---Why stop at 4 division?

Greg Stott wrote:A Squat

And shoes. For God's sake

And shoes. For God's sake don't forget shoes. Because if you wear shoes, you're not raw.... You can get 25 pounds out of shoes.....MAYBE if you squat in flip flops you can be raw but then again, some guys can get 10 pounds out of flip flops. And that's cheating. If we could get together and come up with a flip flop only squatting division or even a federation so guys who squat in flip flops could get the recognition they deserve and not have to compete against other guys who have shoes. Because God dammit shoes aren't raw.

I have never competed in

I have never competed in powerlifting. But i have squated 655x3 in just a belt and knee sleeves in the gym. so the crap everyone says about anyone who doesnt consider knee wraps being wrong is squating 3-400lbs, is just that, crap. some people get 100lbs out of knee wraps, that is directly comparable to the kind of weight you could get out of a single ply squat suite. so no, wraps arent raw. using knee wraps for saftey, doesnt make squating in them raw. and whether they were or not they were around from the very begining doesnt make them raw either.

Just call knee wraps

Just call knee wraps unequipped, meaning not using a squat suit, and no knee wraps, raw, simple.

Where are you guys getting

Where are you guys getting these knee wraps that give you 100 lbs? I want some now! Like someone mentioned, at my age, 48, wraps are not an option. They give me support and most importantly protection. I am going to start doing raw meets and I am going to give my money and support to the fed that allows me to use wraps. I think most master lifters agree that wraps are a must. Feds would be smart to do things that attract the older lifters. We travel and spend money. I plan my vacations around meets b/c this is my hobby and passion. For example, I am looking @ going to Branson in July to do a meet there. I had no clue where it was. I looked it up and it sounds like a fun place. They are going to have 3 additional lifters, me, my son, and wife, b/c they allow knee wraps.

Then you should not be in

Then you should not be in the RAW division. You should be in the equipted division.You can spend your money where you like,your option,but,using knee wraps ,is not lifting RAW! [quote=grissinger]Where are you guys getting these knee wraps that give you 100 lbs? I want some now! Like someone mentioned, at my age, 48, wraps are not an option. They give me support and most importantly protection. I am going to start doing raw meets and I am going to give my money and support to the fed that allows me to use wraps. I think most master lifters agree that wraps are a must. Feds would be smart to do things that attract the older lifters. We travel and spend money. I plan my vacations around meets b/c this is my hobby and passion. For example, I am looking @ going to Branson in July to do a meet there. I had no clue where it was. I looked it up and it sounds like a fun place. They are going to have 3 additional lifters, me, my son, and wife, b/c they allow knee wraps. [/quote]

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