Should the IPF Retire Records?

This is tuff! Some of the Master records are obvious user's. I would start again at the WADA period, nothing against past records, just done a differant way!

Big difference between a "successful commitment" and your "commitment being successful".

At one time I was committed to running the 800 meters in under 1:50 and the mile in under 4:20 but, I wasn't commitment wasn't successful.

it is what it is....

Putt Houston.... now with more Bom Chicka Wahwahhhhhh

"At Outlaws, David Gratton comments on the lifting at last week's IPF World Championships and wonders if it might be time for the federation to retire the existing records due to their successful commitment to offer a drug free platform"

~ARE YOU SURE DAVE GRATTON said that? He's been on this forum running down the USAPL and the IPF for letting users slip through the cracks. Dave Gratton has come on here and flat out said that some of the current and former champions are possible drug users. He also said that he doesn't think it's possible to bench 700 and squat 900 drug free. Those are his words.

Dave Gratton has said alot of things, I don't think it should ever be news

I think this is a must.Look at Weightlifting,they did it.

The totals from this past weekend are reflective of the IPF's commitment to drug free lifting.

Compare with the average the last 10 years and you will see a big dip in average winning margin.

There are alot of IPF Open records that we all know were tainted.Why not erase them and give the true drug free lifter a chance?

another possibility would be slightly changing the weightclasses (ie 115 instead of 114, 222 instead of 220, and so on). Then you have a clean slate and don't need to asterisk the old records. That way all of the old time records are still valid and we don't bury Kaz, Mike Bridges, and so on. I agree that a lot of the current masters (see above) probably didn't build their foundation in a drug free environment, so there you go.

Finally, someone being sane, as there is no way Coan's and Kawarski as well as Kaz and others should be mentioned in the same breath as true drug-free lifters. The IPF should be the totalitarian system it is, and completely embrace the drug-free belief system.

Go for it and prove you are really for this drug free agenda!

If lifters spent more time worrying about PR's and less time worrying about WR's, then we wouldn't have to worry about who took what in 1977 and masters, police & fire, juniors, etc. world records.

dave talks shit constantly

this example is no different

did karwoski ever fail a drug test???

That's BS, because plenty of lifters today in the IPF aren't drug-free. Plus, the gear is 10x better than anything the previous record-holders had. Kaz benched 661 @ SHW and Brian Siders did 771 @ SHW both in the IPF, but Siders had an awesome shirt, where Kaz did it in a t-shirt. So to say you should retire records is dumb.

this is a great idea.... lets lower the bar for everyone else as well.... firemen too fat? give them more time to do their p.t. tests.... engineers too dumb? lower design standards... Kids too lazy? make an F+ a passing grade....

no deal.... IPF is what it is because they have faught change.... of course it is hard to break records at every meet without significant technological advancement....

If you wanna look at the facts, Big Don R. was squatting and deadlifting in the 900's, and benching in the 600's raw. Siders, who is God of the USAPL can only squat a little more with a great suit, deadlifts less, and raw benches about 45 pounds more than Don did. The lifters of today aren't stronger than the previous holders. In 99% of the cases, the holders from the 70's and 80's are still stronger than the best of today.

I used to hold an IPF Masters World record until a lifter who had been suspended for 3 years came off suspension, turned 50 and proceeded to break my record. She even was able to drop a weight class and break that record too, lifting even more at the lighter weight. Yeah right....She suddenly cleaned up her act and came back older and stronger than ever. Sounds like she had a better pharmacist.If they retire her "record" perhaps I can get mine back by setting a new truly drug free one...

Of course they guys of yesterday are stronger, they were jacked to the gills! Strong gear is great but being gassed up will definitely help alot.

The druggies of yesterday lied to say they were the strongest and wouldn't consider competing in the IPF today as they would fail the drug test. Coan showed everyone what would happen when he was finally suspended for being hte cheater he was! Don't get all PC on me, call a spade a spade!

As a true drug-free lifter, I say we need the new records to bring back some true respect for our sport!

DM Said--700 and squat 900 drug free.

I meant raw lifts.I did clarify this.I think from the WC Results the IPF is gaining success.I have to eat humble pie on this one for sure:)

Until someone flunks a test they are clean but imho this is the right thing to do

I don't think it matters if the gear keeps developing like it's been doing lately with the super katana and all. The records will probably be erased by clean lifters due to that.

Ok, here's a spade:

Plenty of current IPF lifters are drugged up. Fact.

Plenty of Olympians under very very strict and serious testing are drugged up. Fact.

You can reduce the amount of the average lifter, but for the ones that truly want to win and take this very seriously, you will never prevent drug usage. FACT.

some of today's ipf lifters are using, true.

but no matter what people did in the past, they are losing their bench records to shirts, not lifters. you could argue some of the squat records are falling due to stronger suits too by the way, coupled with the slamming down in the hole and bouncing up which couldn't be done years ago in those weaker suits. (you'd blow out first if you did that with those).

so you'd have to ask if we should roll back the records to before the new shirts all came out, and then retire them to be kinder to former benchers....and then roll up the records now and do it so the more tested people can win....or ? they changed weight classes once already right?

there's quite a few who haven't tested positive who sooner or later would on say a gh test if they get one going.

but the reality is, even truly drug free and a really good new shirt can wipe out the hard work of an old time and possibly drug free champion, all due to better poly.

records through better chemistry, no matter how you see it, whether it be by fabric or by ingesting something, it can be considered an "enhancement" to the lift...and the fabric wasn't there for the old time lifters.

There is one word that will level the playing ground in this sport and bring some unity to it -RAW.

David Gratton still owes me for the power bar he took at the 1993 Pan Am's in Rockville, MD.
He is a thief.
I was the meet promoter who foolishly believed that he would send me the money once he returned to Canada.
I saw him once when I was in Kitchner in 1996 for the IPF Women's Worlds ruuning down an alley trying to escape.

Why don't we just give the indians America back and start paying black people reparations for putting their ancestors through slavery?

It's history. It may be tainted history but it is historical data and it should never be erased from the record books. It's time to just move forward and progress towards a future where there is more even ground. Today the sport offers many choices for un-tested federations and the problems of yester-year should remain in the past. Removing the records would unjustly affect many great lifts that were achieved fair and square. Since there is no way to determine or disprove their validity, the concept itself is flawed and should be let go. Like i said before... it is what it is. No dis-respect for any these opinions. I'm just saying let's just learn from the past and move on....

Putt Houston.... now with more Bom Chicka Wahwahhhhhh

while I don't think records should be retired I do think that Suspensions should work retrospectively for lifters. So for a 2 year ban any records that lifter set in the PREVIOUS 2 years should be wipede, and for a lifetime ban ALL records should be wiped. Obviously this would only count for drug suspensions not the Ed Coan rule or competing outside the IPF rule

Anyone who has failed a drug test should have all their records removed, simple.

Two words: Shane Hamman.

Siders did bench 650 raw when he went up against Mendelson and Josh Bryant in a bench press contest.

Give him an additional 10% if he used stuff and that's over 700 raw...just a thought...

Hahahhah

ever seen Shane H squat?

I would say at LEAST 10% more like 20% to 25%. I remember Joe Ladnier in a PLUSA article saying he bench went from 485 to 601, squat from 760 to 960 and deadlift from 705 to 832 on roids.

no one knows if anyone is or not but you want to guess who thinks he is clean? Ed Coan thats who.
I think a lot of people don't want to acknowledge that certain people could be drug free because if they did acknowledge it their fragile ego would be crushed.

Not that much less in the deadlift. Big Don's best official deadlift was 885 pounds While Siders best so far is 865 which was done very easily. Yes Siders used a suit but really how much does a suit add to a deadlift? not that much.