Was IPF's Punishment of Russia Appropriate?

I've asked this before, with no success. WHAT EXACTLY does it take for a federation to be banned (permanently dissociated) from the IPF? THanks in advance.

~Dave Webb

The new IPF Anti-Doping Rules don't mention permanent suspension. Here are pertinent excerpts from the 2009 IPF Anti-Doping Rules which take effect January 1:

"12.3.1 If four or more violations of these Anti-Doping Rules are committed by Athletes or other Persons affiliated with a National Federation within a 12-month period in testing conducted by the IPF or Anti-Doping Organizations other than the National Federation or its National Anti-
Doping Organization, then the IPF may at its discretion elect to:
(a) ban all officials from that National Federation for participation in any IPF activities
for a period of up to two years and/or
(b) fine the National Federation in an amount up to EUR 5000.

12.3.1.1 If four or more violations of these Anti-Doping Rules are committed in addition to the violations described in Article 12.3.1 by Athletes or other Persons affiliated
with a National Federation within a 12-month period in testing conducted by
the IPF or Anti-Doping Organizations other than the National Federation or
its National Anti-Doping Organization, then the IPF may suspend that
National Federation’s membership for a period of up to 4 years."

The RPF will take the IPF to the International Courts and win..The IPF cannot ban a whole country.What precedent is there for doing this?What other sport has done this?

As has been said before...The IPF is engaged in a thinly veiled attempt to impress the IOC.

Point being the IOC could give a rats ass about powerlifting.

If the IPF Worlds are the pinnacle of powerlifting than doping should be expected.People will do ANYTHING to win an IPF World Title.Nothing wrong with cheating unless you get caught:)

Hahahaha!

All the discussions of Raw, Single plu, double ply, yadayadayada....all pale in comparison.

Powerlifting will never advance beyond regional success until all this crap gets resolved.

Powerlifting isn't ever going to be back on ESPN. Ultimate Fighting actually pulls in a ton of pay per view buys and they still barely talk about it. Our largest purse is what, 3 grand? That is chump change to the major media, so get over thinking this is ever going to happen. Just be happy that you still have meets to lift in. Drug testing, while a righteous endeavor, will never catch up to doping. I read something about the Olympics having less than one tenth of one percent positive tests, out of around 5,000. Think only 5 people really were doping? If they can't catch them, our little T:E ratio test that is affordable for local and state meet promoters isn't going to catch them. Just screw it and be done with this altogether. Use if you want, and if not, don't step up if you can't keep up, just lift against yourself.

Your an ass Gratton. You have been posting shit like this EVERYWHERE! I gotta ask.. what is your point?

Or are you just another one that does not lift IPF that just feels the need to gossip like a school girl about it? Trying to make yourself sound informed? Quit while your behind.

Madvig,

My point is the USAPL is just as juiced as the RPF as is the CPU..Don't hide behind your bullshit test ratios....1800 test 3 caught..U expect anyone to believe that?

I think people are aware of what goes on in the USAPL.Lifters testing lifters LOL..We are supposed to stand for that while you USAPL crybabies point the finger at the Russians?

Address my fact that the IPF WORLDS are the pinnacle of powerlifting and the US would never send a doped lifter to the most prestigous powerlifting event?

Of course i will say the best US lifters don't lift USAPL so what do i know LOL...

Well Gratton, it is exactly what IWF did to Greece and Bulgaria for the Olympics for example.
And they have done this for years.
To many positives -> no WC or Olympics that year.

Did the Bulgarians not pull their own team out of the Olympics this past year?I wasn't aware that IWF kicked them out???

SO here is one question.Say the IPF succeeds and is say 99% drug free.Then do u think the IPF will need to wipe the record books clean?

I mean for a drug free lifter to have to come in and face the 'juiced'records is unfair no?

So Chris, what you are saying is that the RPF could pull positive test after positive test, and get suspended each time? If they get off suspension only to have positive tests again, they will be suspended for a fourth time, and for a fifth, a sixth, a seventh, so on?

gratton talking garbage about something he knows nothing about, once again...

Or maybe my points are so valid those with something to hide become offensive?

Looks like ive struck a nerve:)

Interesting you say that Gratton. The Australian IPF affiliate wiped all their national records in around 1991 and started from scratch again. Best thing they could have done. Also, anyone who fails a test now has all their records stripped, even if they were done years earlier. In Australia, the IPF affiliate is a true 99% clean. I am certain it is a level playing field(and that playing field being drug-free). There is of course the odd case - usually not top lifter though.

Also, someone mentioned something to the effect of, 'if you can't take the heat of the competition, then just compete against yourself drug-free'. This is truly bullshit mate. So, in other words, drugs are robbing me of competing. Oh, because I don't dope up that must mean I'm not truly competitive?

I got in an internet argument with madvig once, a long time ago, I forgot what about, but he seems like a nice enough guy, so I will give him this one. If you research him at all, you will discover that this guy lives and breathes USAPL, he lifts raw and geared and lifts often. He's obviously passionate about a drug free strength sport and I don't believe he would support the USAPL as much as he does if he thought it was full of dopers. The USAPL is actually committed to making powerlifting fun, accesible, and drug free, and I think they are doing a damn good job. While I can't speak for everyone, I know FOR A FACT wade hooper is drug free, tony cardella is drug free, brad gillingham is drug free, Priscilla Ribic is drug free, and Dave Ricks is drug free. This is either because I know them personally, or have close friends who know them personally. I just listed 5 past or current WORLD CHAMPIONS, in 5 weight classes, 4 who have set numerous records, and who are completely drug free. They compete at the highest level, and if anybody would ever have a reason to dope, it would be they. I believe that unlike the RPF's policy of win at all costs, people who come into the USAPL do so knowing full well if they dope, there is a good chance they will get caught.

You are only succeeding in pissing a bunch of people off, you're certainly not hitting anybody's nerves. You and Nick Zukhov need to go form your own little federation. Best of luck.

That post above was directed towards Gratton. Sorry i didn't say "Dear Gratton"

the best lifters don't lift USAPL, eh Gratton? I guess that makes Brian Siders and Mike Tuchscherer downright average, huh? You really should stop while you're ahead. You're gonna get on a topic which mostly USAPL people are reading, and then bash the USAPL. What exactly are you trying to prove? That you have balls? Sounds like you're trying to stir up crap, not make any valid points. All your "points" are just blanket accusations, with nothing concrete to support them.

I wish I had a magic internet button, and I could just unleash Tim Bruner on your ass.

appropriate, or better late than never,seems like testing positive for a useless stimulant is a more serious infraction nowadays...there are drug tested feds but no more drug free feds, big difference!

provide some evidence

but I am guessing you wont, so its just more dribble being propagated. at least this time it isnt nick the russian.

I have never said nor claimed that the USAPL does not have doped lifters among our ranks. In fact I have stated quite the opposite. I have welcomed WADA more then once to OMT the hell out of our major events and if we had the same (or even close) results as the RPF we deserve to be punished in the same way.

So no crybaby finger pointing here. Just want the rules to be followed. No disillusions that everything is perfect and everyone is honest in the USAPL. Just issues with your gossip.

Thank you.. and your right I would not support the USAPL if I thought it was full of dopers, And as I said to Gratton I have no disillusions that EVERYONE is clean in the USAPL and all is perfect with the drug testing. But we do a damn good job with the resources we have. And the vast majority of the membership believe in the mission.

As for internet arguments... Well my passion has made me look like an ass at times regardless if I am right or wrong. Less typing.. more lifting :)

And of course gratton is speaking from big time experience here. A CPU also ran, and his only exposure outside of that is guest lifting at the michigan state championships years back.

Just like other sports, the ones that truly know what is going on are the ones that are there at the IPF worlds every year. Anything outside of that is just a guess.

As an USAPL/IPF lifter I find it very amusing that most of the people that are complaining about the USAPL/IPF are people that don't compete in it. And mostly who have never been to an IPF worlds where there are more than 100 countries represented! If you think the sport is going nowhere you should be one of the athletes that has walked in the opening ceremonies of the World Games. Bottom line is that all sports have cheaters and none of them like getting caught. So why blame those that enforce the rules that we play by.

I've got to ask, Mr. Gratton, what is your level of experience with the IPF and its affiliates that you are commenting on?

Have you been to an IPF worlds?

What the new IPF rules seem to say is that there could be up to a 4 year suspension under certain conditions (if there were many failures as mentioned). In theory the 4 year suspension could be repeated as required, based on testing failure rates.

Chris

I never said the IPF Worlds wasn't the biggest show.In fact i would say it is.

Ive seen politcal corruptness first hand in the IPF.So why would doping be any different?Fact of the matter is if you are winning IPF Worlds then there is a good possibility you are doping.

It always amazed me how only Jeff Lewis flunks a test in the USAPL.Evryone else is clean:)

Nop one knows 100% if any lifter is clean or not.To say i know so and so is clean is dumb!How would you know?

I think the IPF is on a witch hunt hahahaha...

And if u don't like what i say too bad..Its my opinion!I never said i was 100% fact did i?

Would Chuck Norris lift in the IPF ? I wonder what Rambo will dead in Rambo 12:The Hammer has Finally Fallen ?

Chuck Norris is a success in anything he touches...How about the IPL...International Powerlifting League?With teams of 5 men and 5 women competing in a league much like is IFL/?:)

All those you mention may in fact be drug free but for you to say you know "for a fact" that they are is ridiculous. Especially because you have a friend that knows them. If they were doping do you think they would tell anyone except maybe their dealer?

Think about this: even if WADA tested these lifters twice a day they could still be doping! Insulin, growth hormone, igf-1 and hundreds of potentially performance enhancing compounds are not tested for. Which brings us to the problem with drug free powerlifting. There is NO way to know for certain if someone is drug free or not. Even a drug testing expert could only say with reasonable certainty that someone was *probably* clean, and only clean of the drugs on the list and the drugs they are able to test for.

What does drug testing do for powerlifting then? We will still have doubts.

There are tests for insulin and IGF-1 and a lifter from Bench Nationals is having his sample tested for both substances.

I call bullshit on this one

The WADA is notorious for lying about their testing. They said they were testing for hGH at the 2000 Olympics but it was BS. AFAIK no athlete has been banned for hGH yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I know insulin and igf-1 are on the list - doesn't mean they can test for them, and even more importantly, that the testing method has been tried in court for reliability. They use scare tactics and lie about being able to test for compounds for which there is no established, reliable test.

That is 100% true 'R'...WADA is a socialist organization.They are having to re test ALL samples from Beijing because of an EPO type drug that was undetectable until a few days ago.

How fair is that?Should WADA go back and test Carl Lewis's sample from 1988?

[/quote]WADA is not doing the testing. WADA is not involved in the test sample nor do they have any control over the process.
[/quote]

Alright. What I said still applies though, most likely. And I doubt any other testing org has more sophisticated testing. More compounds maybe, such as in the steroid example mentioned earlier. But testing for peptides is more complicated and a positive result has to be able to stand in court.

Have you ever heard of a statute of limitations? In this case its 8 years. That means that once 8 years has passed since you drug test no one can re-test your sample.