Russia Appeals to IPF

Well the fact that their best lifters are busted out of competition right before a major championship shows that they are not covering up anything.

If anything this should be a sign that the testing is moving in the right direction.

Realistically, what do they have to appeal? This is the third time this has happened, and all evidence indicates that the problem is still alive and well. The IPF is allowed to make up any rules they want (as with any federation), and, if someone can't live by those rules, the IPF has the right to boot them out. What's ridiculous is the number of times their suspensions have been shortened, indicating that, if anything, the IPF has actually tried to make judgements that favor them....And still they complain.

If they can't abide by the rules after 3 suspensions, maybe they should just be banned altogether.

If they want to continue using drugs, they shouldn't be lifting in a tested federation.

testing or targeting,stay the course, Albert Russia has to go!

The IPF needs to stand fast to their commitment on this one.

It looks rather spineless to hand down a report stating that Russia will be suspended with further violation, then if further violations are uncovered not to hold true.

This has been done before in sport....the greeks and the Bulgarians all stayed home from the olympics in Beijing. Its been done countless times.

If RPF President Gennadiy Khodosevich and the RPF are really genuine in their desire to stamp out doping in Russian Powerlifting they should withdraw their team from the World Championships and future International competitions until they are able to "get their house in order".

This would prove their commitment to stamping out doping and remove the need for the IPF to suspend them again.

And close the door on the way out.

and what do you do then Russia drop contakts with IPF and go to WPO or else??

IPF will die without Eastern countries which you so hate

3 strikes you're out-very simple.

Nick, first of all, I could care less about the IPF, it's sad.

But, I do not think WE hate the Eastern Countries, I think in most regards we enjoy them in competition and applaud them for their accomplishments. What we judge them/you is the fact that you continue to get your hand slapped over something you routinely do purposely knowing very well your not supposed to. Your breaking rules, wanting to be accepted for it and then threating if your not waved an "ok" for your actions.

Sorry, but in this sport there are options and Russia chooses to be compete DRUG FREE while continuing constantly to use DRUGS. Not acceptable nor should it be. Mature and respect the rules of the federation or LEAVE. Bring your ass to the WPO, IPA PRO AM, WPC whatever.... but get your ass over here...

Close theme out and let them be there untill they has learned... Then maybe other will think it's fun to compete at the competitions...

AL, do you can tell all your words upper in to the face of your country National Team Members?

Do you have a big power of courage to tell it them when they take drugs, earler then they be catched on control?

Tell me, why you didn't ask them "Why they can't lift so good on internationsals like in a home events??"

I think you're never say them that they're drugcheaters.

do you have a power to slap the ass of your native cheaters in USA IPF national Team?

really do you're think that american national level lifters are clear like a virgin?
if it's truth - why they can't lift so hugh totals?

don't tell me about the different climate and other.... WHY AMERICANS CAN'T LIFT BIG NUMBERS WHEN WORLDS WAS IN MIAMI???

I think because were are no good doping-controls on American Nationals.

Dixi.

Slap yourself, and if you have a good results of it - you may slap others.

Patrik - you are fun man)

Nick,

We are getting off on the wrong foot. I am not trying to be insulting.. and NO I do not think all USAPL competitors are clean nor do I think the USAPL has a good drug screening process, but no one does really, it's tough. But what I do know is what happens and in reality assumptions mean dick and reality speaks volume. And the reality is that RUSSIA gets caught over and over and over again.

Why they can't lift at the international level when they do great nationally? I don't know, again assumptions and more assumptions, I want truth, if they get caught then YES, bring that ass to multiply, I'll be waiting on the platform!!!!

I'm not here to justify this or that, I'm simply asking that if DRUGS is in your arsenal for competition then there is a place for YOU.... and right now your not in the appropriate place, but I'll be waiting for your ass at that correct PLACE... ;-)

Again, I think the IPF is sad and it continues to degrade itself constantly with the governing diarhea that consistently appears... not to say multi ply is perfect, far from it, but the topic here is RUSSIA, IPF and the conclusion is: IPF should rid of the russian teams for continued neglect for the rules. If someone else is breaking them too, then hopefully they will get caught, until then, one thing is certain RUSSIA is getting caught!!!!!

Nick,

Once again, provide names of the lifters that you say have huge dropoffs in total from national events to world events. I can think of only one woman and one or 2 men. And thats out of a whole team. They arent nearly as big as the russian dropoffs. For example, compare last years russian nationals totals and last years world totals. the average drop, especially for women 67.5 kg and up, was 50 kg or more.

I think the USAPL's OMT program is pretty good, and getting better all the time. Thats easy to say from someone that gets tested by it or sees it happen, and hard to explain for those that dont. I can assure you that they show up at homes and workplaces unannounced.

Nick, I read these posts quite regularly and have tried to keep up with what is going on with the RPF. During a lot of these posts, I see your commentary on the subject. You always get defensive and instead of addressing the problem try to turn things around, sometimes going as far as calling people names and bringing up political situations that have nothing to do with the subject. There are very many great Russian lifters, and I have enjoyed to provided videos. The lifters are technically great and a joy to watch on the platform. I have to agree with Al on this one, because say what you want about drug testing, and how who gets away with it and who doesn't, but the point of drug testing is to catch people doping. Top RPF lifters repeatedly get popped, and the IPF accomodates them. WADA gets involved, and still they get popped. What does that tell us? It tells us that there is a problem. Instead of deflecting the blame, fix the problem. Again, I'd agree with Al, bring these suspended lifters over to multi-ply- they will be great! But please stop deflecting the issue and calling us "westerners" names when it is irrelevant. That is just my two cents.

Nick, your countrymen continually get busted for steroids. THAT is the issue. Trying to justify that by making these sorts of allegations doesn't make sense and doesn't strengthen your argument. You almost seem to feel sorry for your countrymen because they've been caught, then hiding behind the argument that our guys must be doing the same things that your guys are. Just doesn't make sense, my friend.

This is simply not true. The IPF will still continue to go strong without Russia. It's true that the averages of the world championships won't be as high. But they will still go on with no problems.

Do the crime, do the time

Russia's continual disregard for the rules of the sport they are competing in is disgusting.

Waving the finger at the USA and attempting to divert attention their way does not hide the fact that Russia has continual drug test failures. They are bringing about their own demise.

Suspending Russian will in the long run benefit the IPF.It will encourage lifters in other countries to send more competitors as their chances improve with the elimination of blatant cheaters,which Russian is a prime example.Don't construe this as a US rant as I am not am American.A strict following of the rules would go along way towards recognition by the IOC as the Olympic lifting crowd has followed this same path by some countries.
I will never understand how someone would compete in a drug tested federation,break every rule in the book and expect to be welcomed back with open arms.

)
OK
may be at the short time we can see IF without russian and some other Eastern Europe Teams.

And at that time you must be stay really happy in yours sandbox

BUT!

I think that IPF Presidium have a different means about the deals)

and they don't happy if RPF, UPF and others move out from IPF. So, ina real case I wait that some members oа East Europeans comes to International Presidium of IPF, because it's a biggest federations after USPL who affilaed to IPF, and IPF haven't a reasons to lost theys money.

do you Know that some best ukrainean monsters comes to international scene after the ban? And I think Russians comes too...

and you are can start crying again and again under these facts

Anonimoys

do you tell me
are Russians reak EVERY RULES ON A STAGE?
Or Russians only havent a lot of money to pay benefits to laboratory to pas theys doping-terst well?

An what about different angle?
May be only Russian is a single federaion who really struggle against the doping? And becase of it Russians catch so many lifters on Nationals ond OCT?
and all others haven't a good tests for theys lifters?

The tone of many of these posts is that Russia is in some way unique in the IPF as regards their drugs usage. This is cloud-cuckoo land. Unless we believe that the only drug users in the Olympics are those who get caught - the assumption has to be that there is a massive, world-wide conspiracy to subvert the testing process, which is taking place EVERYWHERE. This means that the Russian drug users are just not yet well enough organized to avoid detection on the same scale as everyone else. Once they are, their presence back in the mainstream will doubtless be accepted by everyone, their intentions will be described as honourable, their team will be described as "clean", and the IPF will be happy. This is not a Russian, Ukrainian, or eastern European problem. They simply haven't yet caught up with everyone else on beating the system. But they will.

The first issue IPF had with Russia was the fact that they neglected to set up a valid testing system in and out of competition. A whereabouts system was not implemented.
Testing in and of it self will never be enough. In the US and in Denmark where I am from the process was back in the 80'ies. Top names -legends of the game got caught and learned the hard way times had changed.
Testing is a part of a process where a culture change has to take place before the sport goes in a drug free direction. Clubs, lifters everyone in the sport must work actively to stop the use of drugs before it is possible to be competitive drug free.
Plenty of the "Old timers" in the 80'ies felt singled out and unfairly treated when they got caught, the same thing is going on in Russia today. Everyone is doing it, why should we be singled out?
Coaches, lifters everyone feels drugs are an integral part of reaching the top level. This mindset has to change before we see real improvements in the Russian drug use.
Danish top lifters are tested at least 4 times a year, half coming out of competition. Considering the fact that there is no money in powerlifting in Denmark, it becomes very difficult for the top lifters to carry out an effective doping regimen without getting caught.
It feels good to compete in a federation where you know the top lifters get tested all the time. This makes me confident they have done it without drugs, that makes it possible for me to do the same, clean.

action by the IPF was not within the organization's power, and further, were almost unprecedented in sports.
i agree 100 proc. because doping problem exsist in all countries, which participate in competition and this is not only federations fault. I agree that those guys whose test was positive IPF must banned, but I dont agree about all federation

I'm sorry Nick, did you just imply that the USA doesn't have a good testing drug testing system and that our top lifters just aren't getting caught?

Here's the catch: the MAJORITY of the 2008 World Championship team has competed more than once in the past year in international or national meets. Which means, you guessed it, they have made themselves available to be drug tested.

Our Women's Nationals was in February, so we were all in the testing pool for that, the Arnold classic was a few weeks later and 7 members of our current team competed at that (Priscilla, Jenn P. Jessica, Brian, Mike M., Mike T. and Wade.) Men's nationals was in June, closely followed by the NAPF's, in which 5 members of our Women's team competed.

The majority of the U.S. lifters have opened themselves up to drug testing at least twice during the whole year, not just in September, 2 months before Worlds.

Sorry, this isn't about us hating Russia. Most of us are very happy to hear that your federation is applying more stringent drug testing protocols, and clearly the new protocols are doing the job. Most of us have a huge respect for your lifters, the technique on stage and training methods are commendable. However, it is clear that your federation still has some doping issues that need to be dealt with. The terms of the probation were violated, once again. Further, your own federation’s website has publicly chastised members of the current World team for giving inaccurate contact information to the WADA drug testing database. We all welcome strong competition from the Ukraine and Russia, bring it on. But your country needs to play by the same rules that the rest of us are playing by.

Wait a minute....The Russians were avoiding drug tests in olympic lifting for years. You honestly think that they don't have the experience? Come on!

The post by Cominos was the silliest thing ever.

How should I prove I'm drug free then? Total something lousy and call it a day.

Then I can point the finger and say "hey, I'm drug free though!"

No, no one is saying that every Rissian is guilty, not even close.

The problem is the positive tests, period.

Let be realistic here. I don't know much but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck well......you get the picture. Take this into count......Look at last years IPF results then think about the Russian drug violations........do you see what I am seeing.

Since I did all of the drug testing at the Women's Nationals, I know those tests were done right. Also, many of the women had been OMT a few weeks before the Nationals. I was, also, was one of, if not the only the doping control officers for the High School Nationals, the Collegate Nationals, the Men's open/Teen/Junior Nationals, the Bench Press Nationals and the World Blind Powerlifting Championships, I know the drug testing was done right. Our World and Reginal Team members fill out their ALFs, so we can OMT any and all of them at any time. We did almost 80 OMTs in the first half of the year. At least two of our members were OMT by WADA recently.

It is easy to try to switch the blame from one federation's drug failures by blaming another fed for drug usage but it won't fly. Disa is right.

Regina

The IPF Doping report for 2007 list just 31 tests for the US with no OCT

The Russians during the same period did 219 tests with 39 OCT.

i just can say that if IPF disq. russian fed. it will be a big lost for powerlifting.
They are incredible lifter, miles ahead of other in terms not only strength but speed power tech. It's a joy for a guy who "knows powerlifting" to see people like Belyayev and Barkhatov lift.
And that's not doping.

They train like athlete from the beginning, we always trained like bodybuilders in a strength phase. Now something is changing, but overall thanks to russian knowledge.

The IPF Doping report just shows IOC tests. The USA does IOC and Quest Lab tests. The USAPL did several hundred more than the 31 tests listed on the IPF report.

Regina

Why aren't all the tests shown on the IPF report?

They are only that good because they have 'help' to push them above the rest of the elite lifters. Julia was great too, best female Russian lifter and best lifter in history, she FINALLY got caught! Just a matter of time for the rest.

Educated guess.. Apppeals may still be in process. In the USAPL they do not post failures until appeals are complete.. I am willing to bet the IPF is the same.

I would argue that Marina Kudinova was the best female Russian lifter in history based off of both numbers and titles won.

But she was caught too.

Well, the weightlifters had used this method for years.
Did you see any WLers from Greece or Bulgaria in this Olympics for example?
So it was not unprecedented exactly....

I don't think it's about appeals - USAPL does hundreds and hundreds of tests, but only 31 test and no OCT appear to be accepted by the IPF

IPF does not post the tests done by Quest Labs.

Regina

The USAPL DOES NOT have several hundred tests under appeal. Yes, there may be a few under appeals but not hundreds. As I said, the IPF does not post our tests that are done at the Quest Labs only the ones done by the UCLA lab. But we do hundreds of tests every year just look at the USAPL Drug Test Data Base to see the lifters that have been tested this year and you will see that hundreds are tested.

Regina

Regina

Russia is caught, now all of the apologists are pointing fingers at everyone else saying "look they are doing it too, they just dont get caught"

Yes, lets ignore the fact that Russians have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar again, and focus on the group that hasnt bombed on a out of comp or in comp test.

so, how many times can the RPF be suspended before the whole federation is banned and permanently dissociated from the IPF? I think the above poster's are right, the RPF doesn't need to send ANYBODY to ANYWHERE until it gets its' "house in order".

i guess the russian chemists aren't as good as the american chemists either...

so do they test their cocktails on these guys to perfect it in time for the next olympics?

considering hte number of positives in olympic sports, what makes you think any chemists are any good, anywhere?

It's only shows that USPL makes nonofficial tests wich not accepted by IPF.
And it's shows that USPL can make more tests to control of theys lifters doping-status, and if on this "non-accepted" test shovs that Lifter is juised.... USPL tells to lifter that it's better to clean himselve or haven't a competitions, till he became a "clear".

Russians make only Legit tests in Labs which known to IPF. And so because we have so many @drugcheaters@ from Russia and have only very clear "100% natural" lifters from USPL (who pass the tests at home in non-apruved labs )
Ha-ha

Regina, do somebody in IPF knows about so interesting "anti-doping" policy in USPL?
Do they know like USPL make a tests in "undergrownd" labs?

))))))

National champs in USA - Lifters make unreal Numbers, and passthe tests in undergrownd.

International meets - USA lifters Lift less, because they must to pass legal doping tests.

it's shows all about USPL- dopingfree

Nick, don't play stupid.
The reason for doing a Quest Lab test (which is not the a complete IOC test) is cost. Screening for AAS (which most cheaters use) might give some more bang for the bucks.

People caught in all tests (Quest or UCLA) are suspended.

Doesn't Quest sponsor most of the top USAPL lifters?

Yes, Nick,

The IPF knows about our Quest Tests as they agreed to them when the USAPL joined the IPF. The Quest tests are full steriod tests and most if not all of our positive tests come from the Quest Lab tests. The Quest Labs are not underground labs, they are located throughout the USA in most medium and large cities. They are used by many doctors' offices and Hospitals thoughout the USA for many medical lab tests. So before you call them "underground labs" maybe you should check out what you are talking about. We do full IOC tests also. When WADA has come in to do testing of our top lifters, they have been found drug free. Can your country make the same statement. I might mention that we have only had a couple refusals to drug testings, our people DO NOT run out the back door when it comes to testing or just not show up at the meet. The USAPL does AT LEAST 10% of all lifters entered in a meet. The USAPL follows the WADA Protocols in our drug testing. If you would care to check out our Drug Testing Protocols, just say so and I'll get the website for you. It is on the USAPL website. Our website, also, shows who has been tested and which lab was used. It shows who tested positive and who was a cheat and a lier and the vast majority who are truely drug free.

I have seen Russians lift and it is a shame that you have to resort to drugs to compete as the Russians are impressive lifters.

The USAPL is competely open in our drug tests protocols and who and when we test. If there is a failure it is posted on our website as soon as the appeals are finished. Do you want to match our openess???????

Regina

Your statement points out everything that RUSSIA is doing.

Quest Labs and Quest Nutritional are two entirely different companies. Quest Nutritional is located just out side of Atlanta, GA and Quest Labs are located throughout the USA. I don't know where their headquarters are located.

Yes, many of our top male lifters are sponsored by Quest and Sherman Ledford the owner and coach. And I should add, the founder of the new "Q" powerlifting bar approved by the IPF>

Regina

Thanks for plugging Quest, but I'll stick with AtLarge. Chris and the gang do a much better job of manufacturing supplements that work.

I wasn't plugging Quest Nutrition just stating there are two different Quests.

I don't buy my supplements from Quest or At Large, don't know anything about At large. I get my creatine and protein at different places.

Regina

Regina, thans for your answer.

The Quest Lab tests look for more substances than does the standard WADA/IOC test. Quest has led the fight against designer steroids and is part of the vanguard in detection and analysis of new compounds. Quest Labs is also able to detect usage farther back then the WADA/IOC tests. The fact remains that the USAPL has never had a lifter test positive for AAS in IPF competition.

I read many of the above posts and though my comment may seem naive I decided to post it.

I have been lifting drug-free for the past 18 years. Mostly against drug cheaters. (I come from Eastern Europe).

I respect the opinion of all those above, and I think there are some issues that should be looked at:

1. Cheating is not a good trait, it's just dishonest. Testing and control from above will never solve this problem until the pressure not to cheat comes from fellow lifters and coaches. Only then could it be "fashionable" not to cheat. Winning by cheating is a cheap victory, down at heart.

I personally just by setting an example for others converted drug-users into drug-free athletes, despite the drug-infested climate I was lifting in Eastern Europe.

So all can at least SET AN EXAMPLE if he wishes to do something against "juicing".

2. No problem with drug-users. They are adult citizens, can decide about their lives and health. Just go to a non-tested fed.

3. As to suspending a whole nation due to one or two positive tests in their ranks. Depends on the circumstances. If the nation DELIBERATELY connives cheating, then yes. But if they are making genuine efforts to rid drugs, then only specific lifters should be suspended. One can't just generalize one should do this or that without having all information to hand.

4. And finally, why bitch about any fed you belong to? It's easy to criticize. You as an individual have a responsibility just by the fact of belonging to that group. Well, DO something to change things for the better.

Sorry for the long post.