100% RAW = 100% RAW. If you allow knee sleeves and wrist wraps then you should change your name to 80% RAW instead.

I've corrected the original article. Thank you.

It's a cute line, albeit dated now. The reality is, 100% RAW refers to the absence of a geared division.

As I stated in the 100% RAW forum, this could draw in lots of new lifters.

I'd be curious to learn how many feel there is a significant benefit in using neoprene knee sleeves and wrist wraps?

Often, when discussion turns to bench shirts and lifting suits, "carry over" is the key to describing the benefit in using those pieces of lifting attire. Is there "carry over" in using wrist wraps or knee sleeves?

And before we get carried away with our imaginations, we're talking about neoprene knee sleeves. Not those that come with velcro and other ratcheting devices

I use neoprene knee sleeves (Rehbands) in training. Except to keep my knees warm, they do little else for me.

Now when I pull out my old Double Gold Lines, I can do some stuff!

Jim

Maryland Powerlifting

Lift..., what else?

I get carryover out of my belt. I don't get carryover from my Rehband knee sleeves. They just keep my knees warm and make them feel better after a squat session. It seems silly to allow a belt which adds pounds to lifts and disallow knee sleeves which don't.

I'm not saying that belts should be disallowed, but I do wonder whether all of the people who are against neoprene knee sleeves being allowed have any experience with them.

Wearing a lifting belt allows one to lift more weight. However, it is understood that the belt aids in safety. Sleeves and wrist wraps also aid in safety, but unlike the belt they offer no extra pounds. These items do not change the idea of lifting raw. They protect not assist.

I've squated extensively with and without knee sleves. I can tell you that you can't lift anymore with them than you can without. Wrist wraps are pretty much the same scenario.
Their only benefit that I've seen is added comfort and less stress on the joints over long periods of time. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not they are allowed in competition because I'll just wear them in training to stay healthier then take them off at the meet if need be and not lose any strength.

Exactly what Jvasquez said.

i've worn knee sleeves when feeling hurt or extra knee stress just for heat and some ACL relief. i wear wrist wraps when the weights get heavy enough (455 and up)to warrant a lil caution. i've also used knee wraps when i need a lil boost to my squat...so obviously there's a difference. in my humble opinion i think the raw feds and others that have a raw division need to sit down and clearly define what "raw" means in powerlifting...which leads into why doesn't powerlifting, like alot of other sports, have a clearly defined set of unified/international rules so from fed to fed the rules and hence the judging doesn't become such an issue? i know its a round about statement but it seems to make common sense........

Lift the weight yourself. Your total will be lower but atleast you did it yourself. Don't change the rules so the totals will be higher. The totals in raw haven't changed much in the last 30 years unlike the gear totals. Just my two cents.

BIG AL

Big AL,
So you're saying that belts should be out but knee sleeves and wrist wraps should be in?
I've never seen anyone put any pounds on their squat by putting on knee sleeves, nor have I ever seen anyone magically hit a PR on bench by putting on wrist wraps, assuming they knew how to bench in the first place without cocking their wrists.
I have, however, seen many people hit bigger weights by putting on/tightening their belts.
I don't think many people would disagree.

What can I say? Morons abound.

No that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is just lift the weight. Set the rules and make sure EVERYONE follows them. It's not that hard. One set of rules for everybody. Level playing field.

BIG AL

78.25% raw! No wraps, no belts, no suits. If it is 100% raw they should not allow anything. No PL gear at all not even a wrist wrap.

I am glad that raw feds and raw lifting is available but I think it is kind of dumb when they allow gear.... I just don't get it.

Why does the 100% raw fed allow a belt? How is that raw....The last meet I did was raw with the exception of my 2 ply briefs, 2 ply squat suit, knee wraps, wrist wraps, deadlift suit and bench shirt.

Mark Bell AKA JackAss from elitefts.com
Owner of Super Training in Sacramento.
www.supertraininggym.com

A belt gives me just as much carry over as a pair of briefs do.

You are either raw or not. So I vote if you lift in a raw division you cannot wear any gear.

No wraps, no belts, no suits.

one could potentially get weight out of knee sleeves and i dont think they should be allowed

with the belt, yes it adds pounds, but i would allow it as a safety issue. When the term raw comes up, it is generally thought of as no gear, but to me i think raw just means old school. Back in the day. I mean guys wore knee wraps for a while back, but it seems the belt was around a lot longer than wraps and what not.
My vote would be allow the belt, dont allow knee sleeves.

Wrist wraps would only beneifit me so id say a raw meet should allow only a lifting belt, but D.J. can wear wrsit wraps if he wants lolololol

100% raw implies no clothes or shoes, But in order to maintain decency, I'm sure we can all agree upon at least a grape leaf and some double sided tape.

Yeah, a belt "can" add safety but so does a bench shirt. It protects the pecs and shoulders.

A squat suit protects the hips, groin, etc....

Just like a squat suit allows you to lift more weight, so does a belt.............gear is gear. It all helps lift more and adds safety.

If you are going to claim you lift raw and capitalize it "RAW" every time you RAW guys put RAW in a post, then at least do it RAW which is no belt. Who cares if you get injured? The whole point is you are a RAW dog and tougher than everyone else. Now act like it.

I agree with all who have already stated that it seems foolish to allow a lifting belt, which gives the lifter extra poundage, and to not allow wrist wraps which don't give the lifter much if any of a boost. I do however wonder about the knee sleeves. I know the knee sleeves people are referring to are just to keep lifter's knees warm, but what happens when people start to use very tight knee sleeves in order to get some support or poundage out of them? I've never used neoprene knee sleeves so I don't know if it would be possible to get anything out of using very tight ones. Could anyone answer this for me?

if you need a belt its time you start looking to get your AARP card. leave the gear at home if you want to train with it thats grate it has no place at a raw meet.

In my opinion belts, knee/wrist wraps, squat dead suits, bench shirts, briefs are all in the same category.

If you wear any 1 of these items then you are not lifting raw. They all are supportive and help in some way.

Hey, I have an AARP card and I bench more than you, LOL.

I lift in strictly raw meets and I do not think using a belt should be banned in the raw meets. Yes, I do got a boost in my squat and deadlift from the belt by maybe 50 pounds in each lift but due to my disc issues in my back, I wouldn't be competing without the use of the belt. There are some grear raw lifters out there that do not use a belt and I have the utmost respect for them. I know you raw-bashers will say "100% raw means no gear at all" but I think there is a HUGE difference between using a belt in raw meets and getting a 100 lb total benefit versus wearing triple ply suit with briefs and wraps and getting several HUNDRED of pounds added to one's squat or wearing a triple-ply bench shirt and getting over 300 pounds of a benefit. This is downright ridiculous!!! Powerlifting originated as a sport to show "he/she who is the strongest wins" not "he whose has the deepest pockets and is the finest gear-technician wins". It's no wonder the public views our sport as a joke. How can you blame them. With the ridiculously lax judging, drugs, and gear overtaking powerlifting, why would they look at it any other way?

Brian, most people are arguing that in fact, if you're going purely for safety with no boost to lift numbers, wrist wraps (of reasonable length) and loose knee sleeves are more defendable than belts. So why not allow them?
The people who seem to be thinking that wrist wraps and knee sleeves are one step closer to squat suits are unreasonable, because belts, which are clearly already allowed in RAW lifting, are much closer to "gear" than wrist wraps or neoprene knee sleeves ever will be.

I know it is night and day when I deadlift with and without a belt.

So if your really going RAW why would you have spotters or squat racks or uprights on the bench? You can get as crazy as you want with all this. This same old stuff gets old. A belt, knee sleeves and wrist wraps will not add enough to any lift to even talk about. They are safety devices and that is that. Take the belts away and watch the injuries go up over time.

The argument against belts is made by equipped lifters who are trying to ridicule raw lifting. Even though all acknowledge that belts let lifters squat and deadlift more weight, there really isn't anything that technology can do to improve them. And there is as little debate that it borders on dangerous to lift heavily without them. There is virtually no contingent of lifters seeking to lift without belts, so it really doesn't merit further discussion.

I can certainly buy into the argument that wristwraps are for safety just as belts are. It has the added argument that wristwraps don't aid in a motion that is part of the bench.

Knee sleeves, by the same line of thought, are tougher. The knees are an integral part of the squat. While neoprene knee sleeves give very little support (although I don't think it is right to say they give nothing), other knee sleeves give more, and permitting them definitely puts you on a slippery slope of assistance that is not the case with belts or wristwraps.

Raw to me = belt, wrist wraps and knee sleeves or knee wraps. Those things are safety and comfort factor. I personally dont plan on lifting with any raw fed that doesnt allow them.

Raw means no bench shirt, deadlift suit / briefs or squat suit.

OK, that's your privilege. Nobody can argue about what raw means to you.

That doesn't mean that they have to sign on to the same definition either.