Restrict Young Lifters To Single Ply?

NO MORE DIVISIONS! We have enough already!

A few years ago Louie Simmons mentioned that he & Dave Tate had a conversation regarding gear & possibly aligning gear with one's powerlifting ranking...single-ply until you total master, then move up to more extreme gear & the complete unlimited gear at elite. Teenagers would be better served to wear single-ply gear, but herein lies yet another dilemma...what kind of single-ply gear? the stuff the USAPL guys wear at the nationals or standard z-suits & blast shirts? Sandy & Zane McCaslin actually have 3 divisions in the SSA...unlimited, single-ply & basic single-ply (z-suits & blast shirts)...this is a great way to do things...give everybody their own choice & be able to all go to the same meet.

So the AAPF multi-ply lifters wanna leave. Where would they go? What other fed has tested multi-ply lifting? (WNPF? UPA? Not sure.)

UPA, IPA, APA, and WNPF.

You can lift multi ply in the WNPF and it is tested. You can lift raw, single ply or multi ply in the WNPF.

Thanks Bill. I edited my response.

I don't think it's a good ideal to restrict lifters to single ply because it will turn lifters away. Keep giving lifters a choice and they will continue to get on the platform. There are plenty of single ply & multi ply feds for lifters to pick from.

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Why are young lifters better served using single ply gear? Using hellacious gear is a skill you learn by training in hellacious gear.

The only advantage to having this youth meet with single ply only is that it removes the gear "arms race" from being an issue. Therefore, some kids who don't have $1,000 to plop down on a super phenom, breifs and a canvas suit, will on equal footing (in terms of gear) as the kids who day ahve some dough to spend on this crazy hobby.

I have lifted for several years in the AAPF. I am now coaching my 15 year old son in full meet lifting. He will hit his first full meet in June. I think for the 13-16 ages single ply is not too bad of an idea. First off like someone said it is more fair because most kids are not going to lift for ever and parents do not have to buy such costly gear. Second it allows them to build more raw strength and get used to the gear slower. My son has good double ply gear and at this point chooses to lift in a singlet for pull, single ply shirt and just a squat suit. We have tried the other gear and as a new lifter he feels uncomfortable in it and most of his training now is raw so I understand that. I however like lifting in AAPF tested and would hate not being able to also use the gear in the open. Just my opinion. Ken Ufford

To all, my question was NOT an indication that this is even being considered by ANYONE in my federation.

It was merely speculation and posted to create a discussion!! Do NOT take this out of text and think it is a move that I am proposing. Stay Strong, J.R.

As one who has judged HS meets, I,as an AAPF multi-ply lifter, think this is a very good idea. You have no idea how many young kids I see who try to lift in single ply gear still can't use it or wear it properly in these meets. I was very pleased to see that the MHSCA powerlifting meets were changed to raw meets only. However, I'm still trying to figure out why they would change all their qualifying meets to raw only, yet still have a state meet in single ply gear.

No excuses! Just lift it!

The decision to go single ply gear for the H.S. Nationals was to keep it consistent with what the H.S. Teams are used to training for in their existing competitions; nothing more. It allows them to do the APF Championships without the need to learn or buy different equipment. The optional use of the monolift as a walk out or swing out was to offer the lifters a chance to see (and use if desired) the monolift and to become accustumed to it if they decide to continue lifting in the APF after H.S. This made perfect sense to me and in no way was a signal of any change in normal APF/AAPF lifting. Teens who lift on the regular APF curcuit can and always have been able to simply choose which equipment works best for them. Not just teens. I often use single ply shirts in APF comps and will probably open in one in May. Having the choice of either is good. The H.S. Nationals situation was and is simply for the convenience of the existing H.S. Teams existing structure.

When I was in high school I always wanted it to be raw so I could compare my numbers to the others. Now that I am out I dont care much though.

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High School and Collegiate lifters should not be using any gear beyond wraps and a belt. A lifter's teens and early twenties is their best time to develop their stabilizer muscles and using powerlifting shirts/suits is like wearing one of those back support braces at work; they actually weaken the lower back over time if used regularly. Really, only injured, chronically injured and masters lifters (with joint problems) have any business using bench shirts and powerlifting suits but teens and college kids should definately avoid gear at all times.

Bob, I disagree with you about who should be using but understand where you are going. I also know this is an age old argument presented by raw fanatics against geared lifters.

We use gear to lift bigger weights. We don't use it for safety. It was NEVER created for safety. I was here when the first shirts were made and it was never a safety issue. It's all about lifting more than you can unequipped.

There are other arguments here for you but I really see no need as we've been down this road before and the pavement is wearing out!! SS, J.R.

J.R, great discussion, I like the idea of talking about this subject. To keep it short, and especially since this is all hypothetical anyways so I dont need to explain too much, I think it is a great idea for the sole purpose that it would teach that there is a progression that is probably a good idea to follow with gear. I like Louie and Dave's idea a lot also, but that is obviously hypothetical too, but its good because a lot of people enter this sport not as teenagers, so if a rule existed like this, it would still allow 30 year old guys who bench their bodyweight raw who have a few hundred bucks to blow on a 2 ply katana for example for their first bench shirt. I dont doubt that it takes a high level of skill to be good in gear as I have been and still am learning that lesson, but it might be a helpful rule for those just getting into the sport who plain old dont know any better in a way to help them out. Usually it is a combination of common sense and experience that shows you to progress your gear use, but it is interesting to think about what a rule like this would do.

Lol the pavement is worn out and i'm sick of hitting the big ass pot holes!

I think the problem when you make a fed for everyone it just dillutes the competition so everyone can get a 1st place trophy. It is so stupid to see someone stronger lifting single ply gear at a meet then decide I'd better go raw so I can get a 1st place trophy.

Presuming age and experience of the lifters was the reason we opted to single ply only at High School Nationals is logical but wrong. The reason for the event specific restriction is as posted in mastermonster's post. I'm at the same place as Eric Stone, no more divisions, we have enough.

Best to all,
mike mcd

Mike,

The experience of high school lifters in multi ply gear is clearly at play here.

Wouldn't restricting teens who currently lift multi ply to single ply lead them to train and compete in single ply? The net result would be consistency, just as was delivered at the High School Nationals.

Similarly, the downside of additional divisions, lack of competition, would not be a factor because all teens would compete in single ply.

The experience or lack thereof of high-school lifters in multi-ply gear was not a contributor to the decision of "single-ply only" at APF High School Nationals. I have no opinion to give a response to your question of restricting teens lifting multi-ply to single ply.

Best to all,
mike mcd
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I guess I consider experience in multi ply gear directly related to the consistency of training Buddy refers to, which you then cite.

I understand that in your position you cannot comment on everything. As always, thank you for your input.

No excuses! Just lift it!

Jon, the consistency of training I referred to was singularly referring to teens who train with H.S. team programs, which are huge in some states like Texas and Louisiana; and almost non-existant in others. Many of the APF's present teen lifters are not in situations where they have access to H.S. powerlifting (hopefully this will gradually change). Many of these lifters have trained in and excel in multi-ply gear consistant with APF rules while some teens (as well as adults) choose to compete in APF in single ply gear, not to give up any advantage; but because that is what is working best for them at the time. The H.S. team lifter trains consistantly in single ply because that is the what they are used to competing in regularly. The non-H.S. teen lifters of the APF have trained consistantly in what works best for them at their strength, skill and experience level; which is at the heart of the multi-ply federations existance. It would be an equal hardship to expect them to have to buy all new gear and re-train in it as it would have been to ask all of the H.S. teams to change everything they do to compete in the APF H.S. Nationals. I hope this clears up what I spoke of when I wrote of training consistancy. The freedom to chose multi, single, or a combination of both to perform at your best (as I often do) is the very spirit of the APF. As the lifters in the APF H.S. National chose to compete in the APF after their H.S. careers, they will have those same freedoms of choice as we do; and will evolve to the best combinations of equipment to perform at their best in the APF. I believe that Mike's previous explanation answered most everyone's questions quite well. If my reference to training consistency was misinterpreted I hope this cleared it up.