Consensus Growing in IPF - Outlaw or Limit Bench Shirts

The IPF will lose many lifters here in the states. No one wants to go backwards.

I don't know how you reasonably argue with some of the supporting arguments given for outlawing bench shirts:

(i) Credibility -- the bench shirt has destroyed the credibility of this lift in IPF competition & has thereby has harmed our organization & our sport. The shirt creates an uplift estimated at over 20% of performance, produces grotesque efforts in which the lifter cannot get the bar to their chest & results in competitions with many or most competitors bombing. To spectators, politicians & bureaucrats observing our sport for the first time the impact is to present us as an insubstantial activity & the acceptability & growth of our sport will be severely retarded by this poor presentation
(ii) Artificiality -- with the advent of the bench shirt the near universal mentality amongst lifters has become one of who can get the newest shirt or who can wear the tightest possible shirt. Sport is intended as a test of natural physical ability, intellect in devising one's training & character in applying oneself in practice & competition, but with the bench shirt all thought & practice is directed toward an artificial technology rather than self-development

Unbelievable!

"Sport is intended as a test of natural physical ability, intellect in devising one's training & character in applying oneself in practice & competition, but with the bench shirt all thought & practice is directed toward an artificial technology rather than self-development"

If this is the IPF logic behind banning/limiting bench shirts the they also need to ban/limit the squat suit, deadlift suits, knee wraps, etc. To go half way is just plain stupid.

Now, if it is a matter of lifter safety (as has been suggested) didn't the IPF jut approve safety racks on their benches? If so, there goes the lifter safety arguement.

Just my take.

About time!

I agree with Wyse. If you're going to ban bench shirts you need to ban squat suits too. They make just as much harm on the sport's credibility as bench shirts do.

I agree 100% with the statements above...and just want to add, it's about time! I really think it's a step in the right direction..all these suits and shirts are getting ridiculous..it might be a step backwards, but I believe the sport will take two fowards because of it.

at some point they have to actually stop changing the rules to enable the lifters some chance of focussing on the lifting rahter than what is going to happen to their rather large financial investment in gear.

TO claim that growth of the federation is limited by bench shirts is disingenuous. Why just bench shirt? Lifters spend just as much time attempting to maximise the perforamcne of their squat suits. Is it fine to pimp the squat suit/wraps, while its the "end of the sport" because people do the same to their shirts?

Maybe the leader of australia should spend some time wearing a bench shirt?

This is so stupid I don't even know what to say. All gear offers to some level assistance so why not band it all or leave it alone. Why do they want to partially fix the problem. Does the IPF really believe if they limit the type of bench shirt all of a sudden the sport will gain credibility. I can see if it went Raw because then the average lifter has something to compare themselves to. They are totally delusional idiots.

What the IPF may be best off considering is instituting the separate category of raw or unequipped, as the USAPL has. That could keep both sides of the debate happy, and allow the advantages and disadvantages of each to become apparent over time. Unfortunately, establishing a new category may be a leap beyond what the IPF would do.

Shirt or not? the discussion should be equiped or not?. Personaly im just a 200-135-235- 570 kg powerlifter unequiped in the 125/110 kg class. With equipment 280-200-250- 730. As I have competed in different sport such as Alpine skiing i dont find that the equipemt is to bad or expensive. Basicly its the lifters who does not understand the limits. ProPer wear of my equipment makes it fun, safe and healty.

The N/m3 back down will work this way.
- Everybody needs new equipemnt
- Everybody will buy 3-6 times more often than they used to (ps the price will not be cut by 3-6 times)
- New records have to be made
- Drugs will have good days.

In my opinin IPF is best of making a new divisjon witout any equipemnt besides shoes and a very elastic singlet as in weightlifting.

Do we need a belt? if yes what king of buckle is allowed? Do we need wraps? if yes what kind?.

Yes I love my Katana an Centurion in the NXG super+ suit. And its much easier than my old marathon and Ehdhp shirt.

Here is idea, why not shoot bench shirts with uzi, ha ha ha! Explosion suits for squat with grenade ha ha ha! IPF is war make with equipment. Bang Bang ha ha ha!

Inspirational qoutes from The Karate Kid (1984)
Life lessons from Mr. Kesuke Miyagi to Daniel LaRusso

Miyagi: Now, ready?
Daniel: Yeah, I guess so.
Miyagi: [sighs] Daniel-san, must talk.
[they both kneel]
Miyagi: Walk on road, hm? Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later
[makes squish gesture]
Miyagi: get squish just like grape. Here, karate, same thing. Either you karate do "yes" or karate do "no." You karate do "guess so,"
[makes squish gesture]
Miyagi: just like grape. Understand?
Daniel: Yeah, I understand.
Miyagi: Now, ready?
Daniel: Yeah, I'm ready.

Here, Powerlifting, same thing.

Don't really know how someone can term this a growing consensus. Everybody I speak with wants the shirts basically frozen with no more advancements.

If you read the agenda you will see only Australia and Germany and proposing bansishment. Not exactly IPF powerhouses so who cares? Additionally, the USA proposal is basically to halt technical advance.

I wouldn't get too worked up over it.

I don't understand why the I.P.F. is trying to bite the hand that feeds them!

Powerlifting Companies are huge sponsors of I.P.F. and many nationals & state meets.

Getting rid of Powerlifting equipment won't bring credibilty to the I.P.F.

"BIG WILLIE" J.T. HALL
WWW.ATLARGENUTRITION.COM

Let them ban it all. The APF continues to grow as disenchanted lifters flee from the USAPL and the supremist regime of the IPF. SS, J.R.

Say goodbye to a ton of lifters in the USAPL. Every freakin' year there's a bunch of rule changes. How is a lifter suppossed to train for one year under one set of rules and the next year a new set. It's getting ridiculous. All of this is still aimed at the olympics. So go to push pull raw and give yourself a chance to get in the olympics. At this point why does anyone care a/b the olympics. All this crap for a once every 4 year event that won't ever allow the squat.

C'mon JR. Everybody knows you left the fed so you could use.

ha ha, flee to the APF? I think lifters are fleeing from KK's APF regime and going UPA and IPA. Where have you been hiding? Then of course lifters leaving the USAPL that want to stay single ply with similar rules may also start doing USPF. Going to the multiply orgs is a big change of scenery.

Well let's see. Unhappy USAPL lifters could also try any number of other tested feds like AAU where there's a refreshing sense of sanity in equipment rules and platform rules. USPF is starting to muddy the waters over there and they haven't been quite as stringent on drug testing over time, maybe that's coming around but the reputation still lingers..

People like usapl and places similar like aau for good strict rule sets, and very little in the way of high squats and bouncing benches. unless the multiply orgs tighten up and in the cases of the for profit one man shows, start showing some actual drug testing RESULTS PUBLISHED, that won't wash with the majority. can't see them going multiply to be part of the PROBLEM and not the solution....it's multiply benches with the kitchen sink that are making a joke of PL anyway!

Personally as I'm not one of the bench only addicts around this sport, I'm actually LIKING the notion of stopping all the bench shirt bs.

But here's a reality check for you anyway. Remember the video of the russian girl with the 500 lb squat in knee wraps? Get real, IPF has bigger problems than keeping the SPONSORS happy. There's no way that's just lifting and knee wraps, unless someone normally gets 100-200 lbs off KNEE WRAPS? how many girls you know that do that much?

So if IPF draws a line in tne sand, stops the advance (which is yes, out of control) on bench shirts, they still have people doing more than lift. They're good at it too, the ones that are cheating in the tested world.

As for keeping the equipment makers happy....why do you think it's even proposed to keep equipment in?

And for freezing records, there's an argument they should have been frozen and archived BEFORE the latest bench shirts. Seeing as those elevated totals as well as benches!

IPF isn't going raw. That's pretty much a sure thing. The bench has had enemies for a long time in europe....they're working on taking out your arch, you can't wear certain shoes, they have now made you not raise your head, the list goes on and on. with a three command cycle they even make people bomb OUT waiting for signals...checking the percentage of your BUTTAGE...granted this is brought about by lifters trying to advantage themselves.

Fine, take the shirts out, and watch everyone's buttage. But until you get down to the real problem and the reasons behind allegedly drug "free" persons who do ridiculous lifts, you aren't getting to the whole problem.

when you examine things anyway, jeff lewis' squat reduction in performance says it all. the difference between apf and ipf is a couple of plies and the depth. that's about it. the open "pros" of apf vs the underground "pros" of IPF.

No excuses! Just lift it!

I'm 100% pro gear. But if you're going to ban the shirts, ban it all! Then the IPF would soon fold or be reduced to a small little raw fed and about 80% of the crying and squabbling on here would be over! IPF; great job of cutting your own throat...keep it up! (this is some really dumb stuff! LOL!!!)

I wonder how many people posting comments actually lift in the usapl/ipf. I've been reading about the collapse of the ipf since I started competing. I think this is more wishful thinking than anything else. The basics of the bench will not change; lower the weight (which should be the easy part), pause, and lift the weight. The fact that now the hard part of the lift is getting the bar to touch is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Let gravity do its job and that bar is coming down. It is embarrassing to explain to friends, who lift but are unfamiliar with shirts, why the bar will not touch. The lifts, including my own, lose all credibility in their minds. The ipf could get rid of shirts completely and I wouldn't mind. It definitely would not make me leave the usapl.

He won't because he cannot. This is his normal shtick. YAWWWWNNNNN.

None of this is going to really hurt the usapl since they have the Arnold Classic, they will be saturated with plenty of lifters if only because of that.

I applaud the usage of a The Karate Kid (1984) dialogue. That's the goods.

Shouldn't the USAPL/IPF also consider those lifters? They are potential members. It's probably those who may be commenting who have it out for the IPF that you're referring to though? It's hard to distinguish between the two.

yay!

NO more pussy suits for weak people.

Real Men bench raw!

Ok if I offend anyone. Plus im kinda ADHD.

Oh and all these "Great Lifters"

You mean Rycklack and Mendy?

Haha!

They went to the APF becuase it allows raised feet, pussy quadurple ply open back bench press shirts and oh belly benching?

Yeah.

Oh wait did I forget they raise there heads off the bench oh yes that too.

You see, thats funny cause anybody can do all that.

Lets see them pull a mike booker and bench triple body weight raw? With stricttttt! rules?

You see Im a 132, a hyer 132er and I bench twice my weight raw with a pause and no hand off.

And no this is not to be a weenie head.

Im just proving a point and I think your a pussy if you cant bench it raw.

IF ANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE A NEGATIVE REPLY UR A PUSSY!

IM BEING COURAGOUS TO SPEAK MY MIND

ENOUGH SAID YO!!!!!!!!!!!

OH BTW I WISH ALL MEET WERE LIKE CLASH OF THE TITANS!!!!!!!!!!

THAT AND KINGS OF THE BENCH

ALL HAIL RAW BENCH PRESSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are countries in europe, that ipf is main organization in them. suprisingly - there's also low to none respect for lifting in bench shirts, as bench press seem to be basic test of strength (yes, kinda strange, but what the hell) and no one cares what you can lift when you put you incredibly tight polyester shirt (with "little" help of other guys).
it's only what you can press lying on the bench - you, bench and weight. no strange shirt.

Look towards the IPF precidency race,

President
Detlev Albrings (GER)
Robert Wilks (AUS)
Susumu Yoshida (JPN)

Uhhh, Wallauch is also from Austria and on the way out. I wouldn't necessarily assign that motion to Wilks. Now we are down to one nation and Detlev has appeared a pretty reasonable guy. Again, who cares? It's two nations.

Uhh, Australia vs. Austria.....typing faster than I can think.

Regardless of how you slice it this does not represent a 'consensus,' although your point is intriguing.

Sounds like the one crying is you.

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!

THATS THE WAY TO THINK

Umm....

for the americans who have a geographical blindness.

Robert Wilks is the president of the AUSTRALIAN IPF affiliate.

Part of shirt benching is being able to control the shirt as well. People that do that are strong and technicians if you will. Not just anyone can bench in a tight shirt - it takes skill.

USAPL AND IPF - we must leave and let them know :We're not gonna take it anymore!

think there probably right,took several friends to a meet few weeks back an too a man they just couldnt understand the use of shirts.they all thought the use of shirts and suits undermined the sports integrity.

Dan....I have taken friends to meet s more than a few times and if you don't lead the conversation with a bias about the shirts and suits and let them form their own conclusions...most come to the conclusion that shirts and suits are just part of the sport.

If the IPF just freezes the technology I can see that as reasonable...changing records, testing elasiticity of shirts, not allowing shirts in full meets only, all that is taking it oo far IMO

Ummm.....

I corrected myself there, hooked on phonics.

BTW, at last years combined Worlds (mens and womens) Australia sent four lifters, all male.

I stand by what I said.

No excuses! Just lift it!

Micheal Taylor, if anybody can bench huge weights in any old muti-ply shirt and there head up and on their toes then come on over to a meet and put up or as you imply...SHUT UP! (sorry for the caps...such an annoying habit). 2 x body weight for a 3rd grader is really, really impressive! That's about what I'd guess from the intellect and maturity level of your comments. So, at the risk of being overly harsh to a minor...suit up, put up, or shut up...or just lift raw and shut up about equipment; I really don't give a s**t which!

Australia has never had many lifters.

Yet Wilks has enough presence in the IPF to have his formula be used as the method of scoring a meet.
How many other Presidents/president wannabe's have their name in the IPF Rulebook?

[/quote]

Australia has never had many lifters.

Yet Wilks has enough presence in the IPF to have his formula be used as the method of scoring a meet.
How many other Presidents/president wannabe's have their name in the IPF Rulebook?[/quote]

Two entirely different issues. The amount of data he generated to arrive at the formula is staggering. Regardless of the amount of lifters Australia has, he clearly earned his "presence."

The whole point of my post is in regards to wether this constitutes a "growing consensus."

pretty funny, johnny. did ya look at who's running for office? australia and germany....try again on that "not exactly ipf powerhouses".

there's a lot at stake here, financially, for the four major manufacturers too....and athletes if this all goes down as shown will be burned financially AGAIN....or jump to feds where they can bench in what they OWN....

I stand by what I said. Neither are particularly influential.

My money is on Detlev, anyway.

Again, I am questioning wether it really represents a growing consensus. I think not.

You are free to disagree I don't understand your little diatribe about gear politics and lifters getting screwed. Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

You obviously have not had dealings with Wilks at IPF level.

he is influential.

GAWWWWWWWDDDDD!!! This is fucking exhausting.

Let's try this one more time.

I am debating wether Australia and Germany calling for abolishing bench shirts constitutes a growing consensus. Nothing more, nothing less.

The US proposal calls for a halt in advancement, per my previous message regarding my observations of lifter's general attitudes.

I don't care about how influential an individual is. I am speaking about Nations and their contribution to a "consensus."

My opinion, nothing more or less. If I am proven wrong so be it.

This isn't a matter of whether one country like Australia or Germany has much clout. Wilks is an EC member representing the Oceania group of countries and Albrings is well connected across Europe.

Yoshida is EC honcho for the Asia group, which includes a bunch of strong PL countries. It may come down to two things: how many voting delegates show up from the regional groups, and, two, which way North America and South America groups swing.

That's my point, Paul. Doesn't anybody around here understand what consensus means? Two countries do not comprise a consensus.

I don't know how to state it any more plain than that.

then why talk about how "Neither are particularly influential."?

I was referring to countries not individuals.

My "story" is consistent. Your reading comprehension is poor.

Yes.

Do you understand the difference between proposals and how each member state is acting towards the proposals?

You cannot assertain a consensus against the proposals either.
rr

if you are not commenting on their infleunce, WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT IT?

Germany and Aussie are INFLUENCIAL in the IPF because of their leaders.

It comes down to voting, dumbass.

BTW, you spell almost as well as you reason.

Yeah. It's the primary basis of my original post.

WTF is going on?!? Why is this so hard to understand?

your reasoning makes as little sense as being the spelling police.

It comes down to voting, yes, and part of voting is using your influence, you know, that thing that you were not talking about (but were), to get people on your side.

Saying there that 2 is not a concensus is pointeless.

Saying that germany and aussie have little influence is moronic.

But so is harrassing spelling on the internet.

[/quote]your reasoning makes as little sense as being the spelling police.

It comes down to voting, yes, and part of voting is using your influence, you know, that thing that you were not talking about (but were), to get people on your side.

Saying there that 2 is not a concensus is pointeless.

Saying that germany and aussie have little influence is moronic.

But so is harrassing spelling on the internet.[/quote]

You know what, pal.

If you had enough intelligence to at least come up with an entertaining screen name I could return to this conversation after the meeting to do the Watermelon Stomp on your ass when I am proven right.

However, instead I will just ignore your in dire need of hooked on phonics and leap frog ass.

I am to the spelling police as you are to the purveyor of intellectually challenged can't spell past the 2nd grade level but it doesn't matter anyway because I have the IQ of a turnip society.

Baaa-aaa. "Shear" ????

Man, am I glad I retired from teaching.

quote functions must be too difficult for the lord of the turnips to work correctly.

See, now that's funny. Lord of the Turnips is hilarious.

Especially coming from, "Guy who can't capitalize any of his sentences."

Who knew you were capable of such wit?