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Old School Is Different Than Raw Lifting

Former APF Oregon State Chair Rick McClung echoes some of what Rickey Dale Crain has been saying when he explains the difference in his mind between "old school" lifting and the more recent raw movement.

I don't support "raw lifting"

I was at a meet this last weekend and i couldn't believe how many people want to enter the OLD SCHOOL MEET in novemeber...
let me tell you the difference between raw and what i call old school.
In the raw federation they don't allow any drugs, you can't bench on your toes, no knee wraps and some don't even allow wrist wraps. I believe in all the above as "nessasary" or an option so they WILL be allowed at the meet.

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Once again, like Rickey who SELLS gear as a means of income, someone else supporting the all out use of everything.
APF says it all about this guy, bring all the gear, drugs and machinery to the meet that you can.
Go to the dictionary and look up the meaning of raw.
Well, what do you know. Now why would knee wraps and wrist wraps be allowed. Pay attention.

Jimi Aikey raw is good

amen

I have been around this sport since 1983 and "OLD SCHOOL" was alot different then what the current "raw" crowd is about. "OLD SCHOOL" had no drug testing, and guys used wraps and in the late 70's and early 80's squat suits. Bench shirts came in around 1981-82 and they were a natural evolution to the sport to help stop injuries and add weight to the bar.

These "raw" guys will soon learn the leasons of the past that injuries happen far more often when lifting max weights raw. Larry Pacifico even detailed how much harder it was to lift heavy and recover without the juice.

The "raw" guys of today should stop comparing themselves to the "OLD SCHOOL" guys because they have nothing in common.

George

What raw lifters are saying they are old school, none? I beleive most of them are saying they are raw and drug free, and what is wrong with that? You guys get so defensive over nothing, why do you care anyways, are you insecure about something, you shouldn't be. Once again if you don't like raw lifting, then don't lift raw. People that go out of their way to down a certain way of lifting when it has absolutely nothing to do with them need to see a freaking shrink. For gods sakes grow up!

I have been around in this sport since the early seventies. I can confirm what Rickey and others says: In the old days one used what was legal (and that was what was not detected) and got injured. Today’s raw lifting has nothing to do with old school lifting. Although he sells gear, he is right. Powerlifting is not about gear or not – gear is a part of any sport – but what gear? That’s up to the rules of each federation. Everyone who don’t want to wear it, are aloud not to, but will usually not be at the top of competitions. That’s their choice. I hope the lifts will be as they were and have always been: Low enough in the squat, stop in the bench (to the chest) and to lift the most in the dead lift. I hope drugs never will be aloud (more) in any federation and that one stick to single ply, but raw was never and will never be a part of powerlifrting. It is only for those not wanting to compete with the best. Should they get their own category? No, in my opinion.

John Kuc Big Jim Williams Pat Casey to name a few did also lift raw on their lifts. To say it has no place in powerlifting is to say that gear has no place either. I think there is more than enough room for both of them in this sport. I for one am tired of the bickering between the two groups. Both train hard both compete to their fullest both have their place in the sport. I by the way am a raw lifter who appreciates both sides opinions and right to lift.

Anonymous wrote:
John Kuc Big Jim Williams Pat Casey to name a few did also lift raw on their lifts. To say it has no place in powerlifting is to say that gear has no place either. I think there is more than enough room for both of them in this sport. I for one am tired of the bickering between the two groups. Both train hard both compete to their fullest both have their place in the sport. I by the way am a raw lifter who appreciates both sides opinions and right to lift.

I was in Arlington in 1980 and saw John Kuc. He lifted 1 ton very impessive, but he did not lift raw. He used a white Marathon suit if I remember right. But this is not the point - lifting raw has nothing to do with "old time lifting".

i have had a good time lifting raw and equipped. the last meet i went to in may i did the first two benches raw and then threw on the phenom and did two equipped. all i care about is having a good time and doing more than i did at the last meet i went to.

Just have fun and compete

Norway wrote:
I hope...that one stick to single ply....

Why single-ply? Once you use ANY shirt to get that bar off of your chest, what's the difference? It's either you or your shirt getting it off of your chest. Explain the logic in saying it's okay to get 100 lb. carryover, but not 200.

Quote:
...but raw was never and will never be a part of powerlifrting. It is only for those not wanting to compete with the best.

Right. That's why today's raw, tested lifters are BETTER than yesteryear's. They're REAL warriors, wanting to keep it a test of power. The oldtimers were gear whores too, only they didn't have as good of gear as today's gear whores.

(Of course, I'm now a gear whore too, LOL!)

Norway wrote:
I have been around in this sport since the early seventies. I can confirm what Rickey and others says: In the old days one used what was legal (and that was what was not detected) and got injured. Today’s raw lifting has nothing to do with old school lifting. Although he sells gear, he is right. Powerlifting is not about gear or not – gear is a part of any sport – but what gear? That’s up to the rules of each federation. Everyone who don’t want to wear it, are aloud not to, but will usually not be at the top of competitions. That’s their choice. I hope the lifts will be as they were and have always been: Low enough in the squat, stop in the bench (to the chest) and to lift the most in the dead lift. I hope drugs never will be aloud (more) in any federation and that one stick to single ply, but raw was never and will never be a part of powerlifrting. It is only for those not wanting to compete with the best. Should they get their own category? No, in my opinion.

Raw lifters are on the top of the heap. Some total over 1800 lbs with a couple over 2000 lbs. It is not apples to apples, but add the drugs unlimited gear, and the high squats, they are up with the best equipped guys. However we will never know because these guys choose to lift raw.

Raw came about because the gear got ridiculous. Few people bitched about the Marathon suits in the 80's. Not too many people even bitch about todays single ply (IPF). I am in agreement the raw is more suited for the average, for fun, lifter, however these lifters are the bread and butter of powerlifting. They stick around longer.

I cannot believe the gear is safer than raw when I see a lifter get crushed by 1000 lbs in the squat when his suit blew out. Also dangerous for the spotters. I hardly heard of the major muscle and joint blow outs until gear came out. Also seems like the unlimited lifters come and disappear every few years.

This is America. We have a choice. If big poundage is all you want, at any cost, there are plenty of feds for you.

Norway wrote:
I have been around in this sport since the early seventies. I can confirm what Rickey and others says: In the old days one used what was legal (and that was what was not detected) and got injured. Today’s raw lifting has nothing to do with old school lifting. Although he sells gear, he is right. Powerlifting is not about gear or not – gear is a part of any sport – but what gear? That’s up to the rules of each federation. Everyone who don’t want to wear it, are aloud not to, but will usually not be at the top of competitions. That’s their choice. I hope the lifts will be as they were and have always been: Low enough in the squat, stop in the bench (to the chest) and to lift the most in the dead lift. I hope drugs never will be aloud (more) in any federation and that one stick to single ply, but raw was never and will never be a part of powerlifrting. It is only for those not wanting to compete with the best. Should they get their own category? No, in my opinion.

I you don't lift raw why do you care, why the hell do you care, honestly? Should one have to spend 400 dollars to be competitive at a meet or should people who like to lift without the extra assistance compete againist each other. It is just amazing how people who absolutely have nothing to do with raw lifting hate it so much, it just kills them that someone lifts weights without a bench shirt or suit, why is that? It is kind of like most atheists that I know, they swear God doesn't exist, but he sure does bother them for some reason and they hate him so much, but he doesn't exist! ASK YOURSELF THIS ONE QUESTION, IF RAW LIFTING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME, NO MATTER WHAT I SAY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LIFT THE WAY THEY WANT, AND I SHOULDN'T CARE BECAUSE IT IS A FREE F@#$N COUNTRY, BUT I DO FOR SOME REASON, WHAT COULD THAT REASON POSSIBLY BE? THERE ARE A COUPLE OF LESSONS LEARNED IN EARLY CHILDHOOD THAT OBVIOUSLY MISSED A CERTAIN SELECT FEW, THAT ARE ALWAYS THE ONES WHO OPEN THERE FAT MOUTHS;
1. WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF AND MIND YOUR OWN BUISNESS! (self explanatory)
2. IF SOMEONE IS CONSTANTLY PUTTING SOMEONE ELSE DOWN TO MAKE THEMSELVES FEEL BETTER, THEN THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THEMSELVES THEY DON'T LIKE, IN OTHER WORDS THEY HAVE A SELF ESTEEM PROBLEM. In other words, it's usually something about themselves they don't like camoflauged by shitty behavior towards others, these people are usually Rosie O'donell type bullys or just plain assholes. Now you would think that this would gravitate more towards more insecure bodybuilding types, but I will be damned if we aren't, as a whole, worse than them and its a shame!
3. IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY OR CAN'T EVEN SAY IT IN A RESPECTFULL WAY, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND THE MATURE PEOPLE IN THIS SPORT, PLEASE SHUT THE F@$K UP!

IN SUMMARY:
WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH, WHY DOES IT BOTHER YOU SO MUCH THAT YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH REASONS TO HATE RAW OR GEARED LIFTING EVERYDAY JUST TO GET THROUGH THE DAY FEELING GOOD ABOUT YOUR SELF! WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR OWN TOTAL!

nuff said

I didnt even read all the posts but here is my thoughts. Old school powerlifting. I have seen pics of what is and will always be old school powerlifting. You older guys know what im talking about. The pics of the old days when you see guys lifting trees, Tires and rims, engine blocks, tractor parts, sender blocks, Or what ever else you could fine around the yard. That is how people used to train. People made there own stuff. They didnt go to a gym or even have all this fancy equipment we have today. My hats are off to those guys. When we talk about records today what do you think those guys would have been doing if they had every thing that we have today.

Some pictures of an old timer (RIP): http://www.torkelravndal.com/bilder.html

No excuses! Just lift it!

Like George and Norway I was around back then too. They are right! The present 'Raw' holier than thou mentality is 180 degrees away from the 'Old School' Mentality. Those guys were hard core, lift more at all cost warriors...they were MEN! And like the attitude or not; would rather die than lose! Almost a Samuri state of thought! (death before dishonor).

Anonymous wrote:
Once again, like Rickey who SELLS gear as a means of income, someone else supporting the all out use of everything.
APF says it all about this guy, bring all the gear, drugs and machinery to the meet that you can.
Go to the dictionary and look up the meaning of raw.
Well, what do you know. Now why would knee wraps and wrist wraps be allowed. Pay attention.

Let's see. You don't get a singlet either, as that is the TRUE meaning of "raw". Butt Nekkid.

Feel free to keep ranting lol. Knee wraps and wrist wraps being optional add ons, a belt, that's pretty old school anyway.

it's the suits and shirts you kick to the curb.

yes, feel free to hold a meet ENTIRELY Raw. you'll have to pay your spotters a lot to do this one...and provide hazmat gear in some cases!

oh yeah. 1 more thing. you can be old school, hardcore as hell, and drug free.

might be even more hard core not to use...and still lift in minimal gear....wraps and belts are not really gear when you consider it.

the way some people are talking, you'll take my chalk away? yeah, so raw you can't even use CHALK?

Anonymous wrote:
John Kuc Big Jim Williams Pat Casey to name a few did also lift raw on their lifts.

All three lifters used elbow wraps in benches when they were allowed to. They also used whatever they could on the otehr lifts to help.

How is this raw?

No excuses! Just lift it!

Wraps are not gear??? I get more out of my wraps and belt than I do out of briefs, suit and belt. If you know how to wrap you can get 70-100 lbs. out of wraps if you are a 700ish raw squatter.

mastermonster wrote:
No excuses! Just lift it!

Wraps are not gear??? I get more out of my wraps and belt than I do out of briefs, suit and belt. If you know how to wrap you can get 70-100 lbs. out of wraps if you are a 700ish raw squatter.

sounds like i need a new pair of knee wraps, and some good advice on how to wrap. I don't think I am getting that much. But whenever I go heavy without wraps, my knees ache for the next couple days, so I pretty much always wrap with heavy weight.

No excuses! Just lift it!

Anonymous, always keep a fresh pair of wraps around for meets. They get stretched out more than most people realize with just a little training. If you ever get a chance to talk to one of Garry Frank's Hardcore Team members ask them to show you how they wrap. Also use the top end wraps like Titan THP's or Inzer Z's and 2.5 meter if your fed allows them. It really can make that kind of difference.

A top USAPL squatter told me he gets apx. 100 lbs. out of his knee wraps.

Anonymous wrote:
mastermonster wrote:
No excuses! Just lift it!

Wraps are not gear??? I get more out of my wraps and belt than I do out of briefs, suit and belt. If you know how to wrap you can get 70-100 lbs. out of wraps if you are a 700ish raw squatter.

sounds like i need a new pair of knee wraps, and some good advice on how to wrap. I don't think I am getting that much. But whenever I go heavy without wraps, my knees ache for the next couple days, so I pretty much always wrap with heavy weight.

geez! i use the eddy coan crossing wrap and wrap loose, otherwise i can't make depth where i lift. maybe somebody has a way of getting 70 to 100 lbs, but I never got that. I just got prevention of my joints blowing off my body, that's what seems to feel likely as you get older...i get a lot more from a sq suit when i wear it, but i'd rather lift just wraps and belt.

i really do think of belt and wraps as hard core and old school anyway. isn't it what they had first? get me an old pair of marathon gold lines, i don't need the triple wonder whatevers....

No excuses! Just lift it!

I used to wrap similar to how Eddie does. One of Garry's guys saw me wrapping and said your wasting your wraps. He showed me what he was talking about and when I squatted it blew my mind how fast and easy the weight flew up.

all i know is if you choose to use drugs, equipment etc, thats your choice, if you want to compete using the previous mentioned, compete against guys doing the same. i dont use suits or drugs etc etc and i compete against guys who do the same. why should i bitch and moan about a guy next to me doing triple my weight if he is on gear or wearing a suit. thats his choice. lifting should be about 2 factors; 1-you 2-the weight on the bar. compete with yourself to get the weight moved. and just compete with people who do the same and if you chose to stay clean and unequiped and compete against those who dont, then you cant get shitty that they gona be ponding bigger weight than you.