Rickey Dale Crain On Raw Lifting

Powerlifting legend Rickey Dale Crain provides his perspective on raw lifting.

RAW IS A PHENOMA OF THE PAST 5-10 YEARS....IT DID NOT EXIST BEFORE THAT.....

I AM NOT SURE WHAT HAS PROPAGATGED IT OTHER THNA GIVE SOME VERY AVERAGE OR BELOW AVERAGE LIFTERS A CHANCE TO WIN A TROPHY OR BREAK SOME RECORD THAT REALLY MEANS NOTHING.....

MOST LIFTERS THAT LIFTED IN THE 60'S AND 70'S WHO USED WHATEVER THEY COULD DREAM UP TO LIFT IN TO HELP THEIR NUMBERS AS WELL AS A SAFETY FACTOR......LIFTED WAY MORE THAN 99% OF TODAY'S SO CALLED RAW LIFTERS SO WHAT HAVE THEY ACCOMPLISHED??????

I SQUATTED 575 IN A SINGLET IN 1976 AT 147 POUNDS AT AGE 22....

I DARE SAY PROBABLY NO 148'ER TODAY COULD DO THAT......AND WITH IPF JUDGES LOOKING AT IT...BUT I WOULD BE FOOLISH INDEED NOT TO BELIEVE THAT IF I CONTINUED LIFTING IN THAT SINGLET FOR 35 PLUS YEARS I WOULD BE CRIPPLED FROM INJURIES BY THIS TIME...

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true

sounds about right to me

small is a state of mind

This is 100% true by a guy thats been around and knows what he is talking about. I too am getting sick of all the RAW! haha!

Last time I checked Kaz benched 661 raw back in 81, not the last 5-10 yrs. Pat casey hit 615 RAW in 67 and so on and so on.

There's plenty of strong raw guys from back in the day as well as the present.

We get it Rickey you dont like raw and no one lifted raw before 1997 except I can name a F ton of guys that did.

I will never understand why anyone cares how another guy lifts.

I lift raw because it is the only true way to test your strength not having supportive material all over your body to allow you to lift a weight your body cannot possibly handle without the assistant gear

the reason raw has grown in the past 5-10 years is that gear has become so much better. gear has added soo much to a lifters totals that it doesn't reflect the true strength of the lifter.
raw has definetely grown, but the top lifters still lift with gear, which is why the numbers in raw competitions aren't allways impressive. if suddenly everyone began lifting raw, i guarentee tons of raw records would be broken.
also, i don't know anyone that wheres gear for injury prevention. people wear gear to lift more weight. end of story. injury can be avoided without putting on double ply briefs and squat suit, or triple ply denim bench shirts. and of course injuries still occur even with all that crap on, just look at many top lifters. train right, eat right, rest right, thats how to avoid injuries.

A LOT OF BIG NAME LIFTED RAW IN THE LATE 60'S AND 70'S JIM WILLIAMS JOHN KUC KUC JON COLE YOU GOT TO LOOK AT IT WERE IT IS COMING FROM A PERSON WHO IS SELLING THE STUFF!!

I think the hughe cost of the equipment is also a factor.

of course crain is gonna bash raw lifters, the guy sells gear for a living. hes only supporting his interests, which is money of course!

I personally prefer to lift unequipped but I couldn't care less how you want to do it. This sounds like the frustrated ramblings of someone who sees business dwindling because of the recent success of raw lifting.

A real classy post RDC.

maybe because he sales it

so all the raw guys simply do not buy from him if he wants to smack you in the face, I lift both ways and will not get nothing from a person who knocks any powerlifter.

Those guys may have lifted raw in the bench but squat suits , knee wraps, belts, wrist wraps, etc. have been around forever.

dave wrote:
of course crain is gonna bash raw lifters, the guy sells gear for a living. hes only supporting his interests, which is money of course!

Exactly!

Anonymous wrote:
the reason raw has grown in the past 5-10 years is that gear has become so much better. gear has added soo much to a lifters totals that it doesn't reflect the true strength of the lifter.
raw has definetely grown, but the top lifters still lift with gear, which is why the numbers in raw competitions aren't allways impressive. if suddenly everyone began lifting raw, i guarentee tons of raw records would be broken.
also, i don't know anyone that wheres gear for injury prevention. people wear gear to lift more weight. end of story. injury can be avoided without putting on double ply briefs and squat suit, or triple ply denim bench shirts. and of course injuries still occur even with all that crap on, just look at many top lifters. train right, eat right, rest right, thats how to avoid injuries.

Right!

Anonymous wrote:
A LOT OF BIG NAME LIFTED RAW IN THE LATE 60'S AND 70'S JIM WILLIAMS JOHN KUC KUC JON COLE YOU GOT TO LOOK AT IT WERE IT IS COMING FROM A PERSON WHO IS SELLING THE STUFF!!

all of which used the 'gear' that htey could at the time. Williams 675 bench was performed with elbow wraps.

He is correct about the injury part. How many of the old guys could have extended their careers if they had used today's equipment?

I don't think he's commenting on people lifting RAW!!! as much as he is on people starting RAW!!! federations, etc as he mentions that people are doing it to win a trophy.
I also agree that a lot of people are pushing back to RAW!!! because the gear has taken such a huge leap. Personally I wear the best gear I'm allowed to wear because I want to be as competitive as possible. Of course I always want to be stronger out of the gear too.

ok but why should raw lifters be any damned different in the "start 10 new feds" than the rest of you guys. the UPA split off. the ADAU split off, the other ones that crop up every other day, no matter what the issue.

tested, untested, raw, equipped, for profit, non-profit. these are the great divides and will likely prompt more fractures off the diamond they're chipping away at, powerlifting as a whole.

every chip makes the whole worth less and less generally, as it makes the pieces of the pie smaller and smaller.

i like the premise of raw but there are feds that already do this and have rules well hammered out to prevent such concerns. just as an example, aau does ok with raw. they've done it awhile too.

personally i qualified for usapl open nats in belt and knee wraps, so it's possible to still be strong in this day and age of support. i don't think inzer or titan, or anybody else selling wonderwear and supershirts will be that thrilled with raw or anybody else that doesn't use the majority of their products. as that's where most money comes from in sponsorships, there's a lot of lifters who won't like it either....

as for people just wanting trophies, that happens anyway. with the dilution of all the feds, you'll get more titles, more trophies. the trick is to go for the ones that have some age on them, have some higher records, and always remember. you compete against yourself.

The great unstate fact is that anyone can lift raw anytime they want in any fed. No one forces you wear gear.

If you're not winning against competiton, or setting national or world records trophies are a waste.

Also note the pre80's benchers were not going raw to mkae any sort or moral statement it was because bench shirts were not yet available.

No excuses! Just lift it!

Well put Greg!

Greg Godwin wrote:
Also note the pre80's benchers were not going raw to mkae any sort or moral statement it was because bench shirts were not yet available.

elbow wraps where

:)

Anonymous wrote:
I lift raw because it is the only true way to test your strength not having supportive material all over your body to allow you to lift a weight your body cannot possibly handle without the assistant gear

good for you.
have you ever lifted in gear?
dont like it, lift in the raw fed with 3 people in attendance.

Greg Godwin wrote:
The great unstate fact is that anyone can lift raw anytime they want in any fed. No one forces you wear gear.

If you're not winning against competiton, or setting national or world records trophies are a waste.

Also note the pre80's benchers were not going raw to mkae any sort or moral statement it was because bench shirts were not yet available.

And the great misunderstood fact by gear-wearing lifters is that those who lift raw are still intensely competitive. Sure we can show up at a contest for geared (and even drug-using) lifters and effectively be in a different world. For that matter, why show up? Why not just do the lifts in the gym and call it good? I'm sorry if you believe that one's opinion is only as valid as your total is high; frankly, that is a ridiculous position.

Sean Katterle wrote:
RDC sells a line of powerlifting gear.

His saying that he doesn't approve of raw lifting is like a tobacco corporation saying that they don't approve of non-smoking sections in restaurants.


Good point, Sean. And the AAU should dissassociate with him being that they have such a large number of raw lifters who are paying members and one of their meet directors uses their organization to promote his gear sales and he puts down a lot of their lifters publicly. ANY RAW LIFTER THAT LIFTS IN THE AAU NEEDS TO BRING THIS TO THE ATTENTION OF THE POWERS THAT BE! THE AAU SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT PUTTING DOWN THE WAY LIFTERS WANT TO LIFT, IT SHOULD BE RESPECTFULL OF ALL OF ITS LIFTERS CHOICES, WE ARE ALL DUES PAYING MEMBERS AND MR. CRAIN SHOULD NOT BE ABLE FORCE HIS GEAR SALES UP BY TEARING DOWN OTHERS WAY OF LIFTING!

I agree with almost all of the dissenting posts, especially the last one. When Job Hou-seye gets anti-NASA criticism, and Tim Bruner gets anti-USPF criticism, Rickey should get anti-AAU criticism. Paul Bossi is getting anti-100% RAW criticism, so everyone should get the same treatment.

Rickey is illogically biting the hand that feeds his fed, just to try to make more gear sales. I'd venture to guess that more than 50% of AAU lifters are raw.

RDC's entitled to his opinion, but so am I. Just lift in the gear you want and don't criticize those that wanna keep it a test of strength, instead of gear technique.

Was that 575 SQ@148 drug tested? Of course not.

ooh that goes a lot further than RDC and AAU, buddy.

let's see, titan, inzer, etc distributors as meet directors in other federations that are now struggling to put in place RAW, right? usapl?

the gear makers have been sponsors of many federations over the years, and i've seen distributors for titan and inzer at aau meets too. does this constitute an attempt to ram gear down raw lifters' gullets? nah. it's sponsorship.

so rdc runs meets. dan gaudreau has been a titan distributor, he runs meets? did his running a usapl bench nats mean everyone had titan bench shirts rammed down their throats? nope. they could have benched in tshirts. no law against it.

logic's a bit flawed on this one, if meet directors should not be permitted to be gear distributors, then there's more than 1 federation where this should be looked at! say feds should prevent meet directors from selling booth space too! long list of things to look at if you take this one further.

aau members have more than 1 option for qualifiers for worlds and they have equipped and raw divisions and records. no one was forced to do rdc's meet in ok.

Anonymous wrote:
ooh that goes a lot further than RDC and AAU, buddy.

let's see, titan, inzer, etc distributors as meet directors in other federations that are now struggling to put in place RAW, right? usapl?

the gear makers have been sponsors of many federations over the years, and i've seen distributors for titan and inzer at aau meets too. does this constitute an attempt to ram gear down raw lifters' gullets? nah. it's sponsorship.

so rdc runs meets. dan gaudreau has been a titan distributor, he runs meets? did his running a usapl bench nats mean everyone had titan bench shirts rammed down their throats? nope. they could have benched in tshirts. no law against it.

logic's a bit flawed on this one, if meet directors should not be permitted to be gear distributors, then there's more than 1 federation where this should be looked at! say feds should prevent meet directors from selling booth space too! long list of things to look at if you take this one further.

aau members have more than 1 option for qualifiers for worlds and they have equipped and raw divisions and records. no one was forced to do rdc's meet in ok.


You missed my point, the point is RDC is publicly denouncing raw lifting because he is a gear vendor. He should not be an ambassador to the AAU being that he is putting down, like Jim Ray said, half of the AAUs members. As a meet director his responsibility is to the lifters and the fed, not his gear sales. As a meet director for the AAU, he represents the AAU and all its members, not just the ones that he is trying to make money off of. There is a definite conflict of interest here, between Mr. Crain and his gear sales and Mr. Crain the meet director. There is nothing wrong with gear vendors at meets and even sponsoring them, but when the meet director is a gear vendor that comes on public forums in opposition of over half the feds members choice to lift the way they want to, then the fed has an obligation to its MEMBERS who pay membership dues to look into it. What is happening is he is using the AAU's name to promote his sales of gear. I DON'T CARE WHO ELSE DOES IT, IT IS WRONG!

Funny how the sellers of RRRAAAW bash everyone else, but one little word the other way around and KABAM the few raw bullies go wild.

Callahan wrote:
Funny how the sellers of RRRAAAW bash everyone else, but one little word the other way around and KABAM the few raw bullies go wild.

Actually, most raw lifters don't care how you lift and they shouldn't. Why do you care about them if you don't lift that way. RDC cares because it effects his profit. Why do you care, insecurity or something else? What do you expect, raw lifters not to defend the way they lift, when a gear vendor bashes them? Your statement has no substance, in fact it is along the same lines of gear bashing done by a small select few of raw lifters. You see in your weak attempt to demean raw lifters you are actually giving a small select few geared lifters a bad name. BELIEVE IT OR NOT YOU ARE JUST AS MUCH A PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH POWERLIFTING THAN THE GEAR BASHERS YOU HATE SO MUCH ARE. MATURITY IS A POSITIVE THING, SEEK SOME!

Ricky knows powerlifting. He was a raw lifter and then did some equipped stuff.
He was good at it too.

Who am I to argue with him?

isbell wrote:
Ricky knows powerlifting. He was a raw lifter and then did some equipped stuff.
He was good at it too.

Who am I to argue with him?


He also knows gear vending!

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
ooh that goes a lot further than RDC and AAU, buddy.

let's see, titan, inzer, etc distributors as meet directors in other federations that are now struggling to put in place RAW, right? usapl?

the gear makers have been sponsors of many federations over the years, and i've seen distributors for titan and inzer at aau meets too. does this constitute an attempt to ram gear down raw lifters' gullets? nah. it's sponsorship.

so rdc runs meets. dan gaudreau has been a titan distributor, he runs meets? did his running a usapl bench nats mean everyone had titan bench shirts rammed down their throats? nope. they could have benched in tshirts. no law against it.

logic's a bit flawed on this one, if meet directors should not be permitted to be gear distributors, then there's more than 1 federation where this should be looked at! say feds should prevent meet directors from selling booth space too! long list of things to look at if you take this one further.

aau members have more than 1 option for qualifiers for worlds and they have equipped and raw divisions and records. no one was forced to do rdc's meet in ok.


You missed my point, the point is RDC is publicly denouncing raw lifting because he is a gear vendor. He should not be an ambassador to the AAU being that he is putting down, like Jim Ray said, half of the AAUs members. As a meet director his responsibility is to the lifters and the fed, not his gear sales. As a meet director for the AAU, he represents the AAU and all its members, not just the ones that he is trying to make money off of. There is a definite conflict of interest here, between Mr. Crain and his gear sales and Mr. Crain the meet director. There is nothing wrong with gear vendors at meets and even sponsoring them, but when the meet director is a gear vendor that comes on public forums in opposition of over half the feds members choice to lift the way they want to, then the fed has an obligation to its MEMBERS who pay membership dues to look into it. What is happening is he is using the AAU's name to promote his sales of gear. I DON'T CARE WHO ELSE DOES IT, IT IS WRONG!

ok but where to draw the line? i don't think he was talking on BEHALF of aau? and the guy's entitled otherwise to a personal opinion?

maybe we should enjoin ALL meet directors from being vendors or acting as agents for any manufacturer of gear? at least in federations where the members have a voice or a vote, or where there is a raw contingent as part of the membership?

love to see that one try to get into and through NGB for USAPL though...I did some more looking around there at meet directors and distributors, you'd find yourself some problems on that score.

perhaps rickey needs to make it more clear it's his personal opinion and not on behalf of as you rightly state, a partially raw membership in AAU? rickey isn't president, or the aau liaison... that would be bill and ivy - and they aren't posting to clear this up? I'm sure they would act if they felt it was an attempt at being an OFFICIAL rep?

it is a bit though of the "fabled past" stuff coming out of the woodwork again though - how it was "the good old days". lately i've heard people talk about 'well it used to be everyone knew each other, the feds were not many, the senior nationals lead to the ONLY worlds' etc. how now it's all "falling apart". how the bench shirts are "ruining powerlifting".

ok, if we do go back, they didn't have a bench shirt worth wearing for the longest time, fine, but they also didn't go crediting raw lifts much either? how old ARE the raw records in all these federations! on the upside, there ARE more powerlifters...that's one thing about all the darned alphabet soup out there!

i'm sure if the author above wants to have rickey taken to task officially by aau, that an email to bill would probably get a response on the subject. me, i took it to be his personal opinion and yeah it's America. He gets one.

Sorry fella "callahanowner" your spin words always come out as lies to the majority who really know but stay quiet. KABAM there goes another raw nut jumping on anyone with a different opinion. Cut your dosages.

Let's not forget Ricky Crain is a powerlifter. His opinion could very well be that of a powerlifter. It's easy to demonize him for speaking his mind. He obviously cares about the sport enough to stay involved on many levels.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I lift raw because it is the only true way to test your strength not having supportive material all over your body to allow you to lift a weight your body cannot possibly handle without the assistant gear

good for you.
have you ever lifted in gear?
dont like it, lift in the raw fed with 3 people in attendance.


hey guy every time I have lifted there was considerably more than 3 or 30 in attendence. By the way addiction to gear that allows your ego to lift more weight than your own body can handle is your own affair so don't get mad when somebody is naturally stronger than you are lifting raw.

Callahan wrote:
Sorry fella "callahanowner" your spin words always come out as lies to the majority who really know but stay quiet. KABAM there goes another raw nut jumping on anyone with a different opinion. Cut your dosages.

Let's not forget Ricky Crain is a powerlifter. His opinion could very well be that of a powerlifter. It's easy to demonize him for speaking his mind. He obviously cares about the sport enough to stay involved on many levels.


I wasn't jumping on anyone, YOU WERE, and show me where I lied, please! I respect the rights of everyone to lift as they please, YOU DON'T, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!

You call yourself "callahan owner" but you say I'm the problem? You make yourself look like another raw nut bashing others and claiming to be a victim.

You're addicted to your own self important excuse.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I lift raw because it is the only true way to test your strength not having supportive material all over your body to allow you to lift a weight your body cannot possibly handle without the assistant gear

good for you.
have you ever lifted in gear?
dont like it, lift in the raw fed with 3 people in attendance.


hey guy every time I have lifted there was considerably more than 3 or 30 in attendence. By the way addiction to gear that allows your ego to lift more weight than your own body can handle is your own affair so don't get mad when somebody is naturally stronger than you are lifting raw.

you raw lifters got the ego you always have to make sure we all know your RAW. Dont get mad when someone is stronger then you in gear then you have to lift raw to get your record or trophy.

so you are saying it's okay to get your "trophy" using gear but not raw to get mine. Come on now if a raw lifter is putting up numbers comparable to your geared lift who is really lifting more weight

novel idea give the gear the trophy

I see support gear as more of a safety device than an artificial means of boosting poundages.

I'm a raw lifter never did any drugs in my life I love raw it show the true lifter I have a 700+ deadlift RAW NO DRUGS!

The olympic games may consider the raw powerlifter ,but not the equipped, what does that say?

I lift raw and equipped, and i appreciate the difference,but when u talk to the general public ,most people in gyms around the world lift raw and only see that as a true test of pure natural strength.....The general population see lifting equipped as using artificial means to look strong, rather than being natually strong.

raw is real , conversely who cares if some guy can bench 900 pounds with technology and 600 without it, why dont we use robotic arms and lift 2000 pounds that would be a true test. same is true with roids people who do lift more is that real? what about the body builders pretty fake man, all puffed up with every substance known to horses.

If I can bench 400 raw and 550 with a shirt that is B. S