Guilt By Association!

What's KK's excuse for not paying the lifters for the past three years? Is there a scapegoat for that event? KK is amazing!! He refuses to pay prize money for years but now complains that someone owes him money that was promised. He really is INSANE!!!! My prediction is that the Arnold will remove the WPO in the next several years.

If that did happen, what would likely replace the WPO events at this venue?

Next thing KK will start saying stuff like:
"The Ukrainians are our affliction. Our Federation used to be the best in the world but then the Ukrainians tried to sabatage it. They have no interest in the glory of the WPO. We must mark the Ukrainian's arms with bands so we know who the traitors are. This, great people of the WPO, is My Struggle."

I haven't nor probably ever will compete in a WPC event, but why are the members of the WPC putting up with tons of fun? Let's face it, powerlifting feds are a dime a dozen, if you want things changed, start a new one. This guy seems to be living in a fantasy world where he is God of all that is professional powerlifting. I see a lot of people claim that federations affiliated with the WPC are "for the lifter", it sure doesn't sound like that is the case. It sounds like you guys are at the mercy of the all mighty Fatty McGee.

Ok, I might be labeled as a heretic but here it goes.

I think that in talking with many lifters that not many are or feel that they are beholden to KK. He can behave as good or as poorly as possible and it simply does not matter. He holds the key to the Arnold Classic. Plain and simple.

Now, a few have been outspoken enough to defect, and I have it on good intel that some more are going to follow suit, but the bottom line is that until somebody comes along that is able to at least offer what KK can offer, then KK will continue to be King. Of course, KK knows this and perhaps that he is abusing his power?

I honestly do not know what goes on behind the scenes. I have no idea how much money the APF actually raises after all expenses are paid, etc. so I do not know how realistic it is to think that prize money can come this way. I do know that in what I have seen on these forums and what I have heard in talking with others that KK is not the greatest when it comes to securing sponsorships and money.

I also do not know everything that is going on between KK, Spartak, and Rhyzuk. For all I know, Rhyzuk is a dirty doublecrosser and deserves what KK is giving him. However, if he is not this dishonest person that he has been accused of, then KK is certainly doing a disservice to the WPO and its lifters by wanting to get rid of arguably the best lifters that we, the WPO have to offer. To me, having Kutcher, Yarymbash, and the others brings more legitimacy to the WPO because of how talented they are.

It is a fact that the Arnold Classic is the biggest event in powerlifting today, in terms of exposure, energy, etc. We competitors are true athletes for a day, and that is what keeps us coming back year after year. You would only begin to understand if you have been there in some capacity and my fellow competitors truly understand because we have walked the walk. For this, KK deserves credit despite all of the other complaints that may go along with this. I do not see anyone else offering something as good, bigger, or better, do you?

None of this changes the fact that KK does owe money to lifters from past agreements. Legal, binding agreements. This fact does not bode well for KK when he comes online and posts like he did in regards to Rhyzuk and the Ukrainians. You see, KK CANNOT JUSTIFY BAD BEHAVIOR BY POINTING TO OTHER BAD BEHAVIOR! He cannot justify the fact that he has not paid lifters that he owes money to, regardless of what is going on between him and Rhyzuk and the Ukraine.

For all I know, Rhyzuk was sold down the river by some agreement that was made behind closed doors by KK and Spartak.

So, what this all boils down to are the following, which I believe to be undisputable:

1) KK holds the power because he has the golden ticket to the Arnold. The only way to change this is for somebody else (preferably reputable...Louie Simmons, Dave Tate, Ed Coan, etc. just for examples)to step up to the plate, put together a package that they can offer, and if it is appealing to us lifters take that package to Jim Lorimer, the head guy for the Arnold, and sell it.

2) There is too much controversy surrounding KK. He has lost most if not all allegiance. Lifters go to his meets simply because they are means to an end. This would quicky become evident once another competitor steps up to the plate and pitches their offer...I would suspect.

3) All of this controversy makes the WPO and its lifters less credible at home and on the world stage. You can complain and gripe and moan all you want, but the most reputable powerlifting organization in the world is the IPF, and this is coming from the old guard and one who has reached the highest level. If this is no big deal with you, the reader, then fine. However, it is sort of a big deal with us lifters that honestly think we are some of the best at what we do but our accomplishments are soiled and sullied by our leadership.

Lets clarify something--Ryzhuk is not Yarymbash's coach. His coaches in his village are Alexander Kotlubey and Alexander Katengy. Lotlubey traveled with him to the Arnold and prepped/coached/managed him the whole time. I spent the whole weekend with the two and there was no one else coaching Yarymbash. I don't know the role Ryzhuk plays, but it is minor (if any) and only because he might be higher in the pecking order in regard to how powerlifting is organized in Ukraine. Bottom line-I never saw him at the Arnold.

Yarymbash is one of your stars and will be for some time, KK, and you need him. Making idle threats like this is going to get you nowhere with raising the profile of the sport or organization. How would Yarymbash even know you made this threat? You didn't send it directly to him and the guy lives in a small village and has no internet (nor read or speaks English all that well).

Show some appreciation and quit treating your lifters (i.e. bread and butter) like they are little children. I hope you are using some other channels to communicate such serious threats to the people that will receive the consequences of your threats. It doesn't lend much credibility to your organization to make this a standard business practice. Nor is 'making threats' a traditional American/International business method that is widely viewed as acceptable for a reputable organization. It's is more like a mob tactic. What is this? 1920's Chicago with Al Capone running the show? Maybe we should get the IRS involved and see if tax evasion is involved. It seems some money has gone missing somewhere. Too many lifters not getting paid and lots of excuses blaming sponsors, lifters, and coaches. Nice defense mechanism--go on the attack when most of the evidence points at you!

BTW-one of the best ways to not hurt the sport is to not hire announcers who tell the audience repeatedly(as at the Arnold Classic this year) "You are hurting the sport" when they want to get up close and take pictures.

Since no one really gets paid, or not much, where is the argument? Just lift elsewhere. Or is the Arnold exposure getting all of the lifters spreads in a magazine or something. I guess I am missing the incentive to lift in this guy's fed. Did he really make a lifter remove himself after squatting and benching? The prize money that was handed out to Andy and Evgen wouldn't even pay for their entire trip. The USPF really needs to find a way to make inroads into the Arnold.

I agreee totally, the USPF can be the right fed at the right time to solve this problem.

While the WPO seems to be run poorly, I can't imagine the specific problems they're having impact whether or not they get to stay at the Arnold. They pack their auditorium on both days, drawing more attendance than any other event, and it is only getting bigger. Why should the Arnold Classic concern itself with the lifters getting paid when the lifters keep coming back to put on a show?

This is precisely why I want nothing to do with the WPO. Kidder you are a fucking piece of shit. YOU have the balls to bitch at someone for not paying? You actually want us to sit here and believe YOU that someone else is responsible for you not paying the lifters? Man, go fuck yourself. The lifters need to stand up to wannabes and rip off artists like yourself, Katterle and Cosnotti.

Jared my man, you are right on the money. Lorimar only cares about the crowd/gate money and that comes from the lifters that commit. Next year, if no soldiers show up, there will be no war. What if they gave a war and nobody came?

I agree that the USPF is the right fed for the job.

Sounds like you are on Gene's side Brad V. Lou Simmions is better off running the WPO b/c he sure as hell IS NOT an wannabe and probably not in any way a rip off artist.

I don't get the USPF being the right Fed. Do you think lifters will give up:

1. monolift
2. 2-ply gear
3. open-back shirts
4. belly benching
5. WPO squat depth (higher than USPF)
6. early weigh-ins (full weight class for some)

The main differences between USPF and USAPL are USAPL has drug-testing and the IPF affiliation. Why not just bring in USAPL and the IPF so we can have the best in the US go against the best in the world?

APC is much closer to WPO with the main differences being no open-back shirts and no belly benching.

I see your point, but there is a legitimacy problem with the WPO as well. The USPF does not have that. Squats are actually squats and the gear is not out of control. We all know the USAPL is no where close to a drug free organization, but claims to be, that is their credibility issue, along with their analness(for lack of a better word). The USPF doesn't test so they don't have to worry about it(it is actually up to the meet director). Simply put, it is the best run most credible fed their is. I am in no way saying the WPO lifters aren't the strongest mofos alive, but the numbers are insanely inflated with the gear. Sorry, but when you have to compinsate in judging because guys can't hit depth with a grand on their back, the gear is a problem. Why not take some of the gear out of the equation and see what lifters can draw out of their own strength instead of how much they can get out of gear. The USPF allows all of the gear needed for adequate protection. Then when a lifter hits a grand in a squat, there will be a lot less speculation about how much credit of that grand goes to the judge and how much goes to the gear. I am trying not to be too negative or be a gear basher, sorry if I come across that way. I am not trying to take anything away from geared lifters I just think there is a better, more credible way. My 2 cents! On the other hand, if the Arnold stays WPO they do need someone like Louie.

I don't disagree with your points on the WPO. There's no doubt there are a lot of talented lifters there. It's the leasership of the federation that's an issue.

I just think WPO to USPF is too big of change. It could be possible if the right people supported it though. If it happens, I think you'd see a huge decrease in popularity of 2-ply gear.

most of the peoplewho go to the arnold and watch are 2 ply lifters and will forever be 2 ply lifters. the wpo is what brings them in gear poor judging whatever youwant to call it but its the numbers that people put up that pack them in. The problem is simple kk needs to get some sponsers and put up what money he can and pay the back pay he owes the other lifters. the problem can be fixed it will just take a few more big names to help get the ball rolling but its already started to progress.

I think it would be really cool to see the USPF take over the show at the Arnold. Nick Busick has run some good Mountaineer Cup Classic meets that have been televised on ESPN. Steve Denison also runs good meets out in Calif. I think if the USPF teamed up with their best meet directors like Busick, Denison, and McCase it would be outstanding and it would draw in some big name lifters from not only USPF, but also USAPL, and APF as well as other feds.

USAPL members be careful keep in mind Brian Siders' unfortunate suspension for competing at a meet where an IPF banned lifter may be present.

Its funny that when the IPF went through all of the rule changes, a lot of the apf guys bitched on and on about the bosses in the IPF not listning to the lifter and playing power games.

adn what is kerin doing here?

APF is all about the lifter

hahahahaha

What would the WPO be without having their finals at the Arnold Classic? I, personally, can't rightly say. I do think it would be a major blow to the organization. If this would be the case, the promoters of the AC should hold KK accountable for the $$$ he isn't paying out. The fans should hold the AC promoters accountable as well. Someone needs to go a step above baby huey and get results. He (being the owner of the WPO) is representing the AC. If he is defrauding the participants, it reflects badly on the entire event. If the organization's exposure would be negatively affected, by being removed from the Classic, I think KK would get his act together. Either that or the promoters could give another federation a chance to shine.

Good point. KK is acting similar to how the IPF committee would do in this situation. One difference is IPF wouldn't put the lifters on the flight sheets or allow them on the platform to begin with. KK had to know that it would be more publically humiliating this way. Kicking guys out in the middle of a meet is something that meet officials might have to do sometimes, but we don't see it very often.

Why should the AC coordinators get involved? They have a business relatioship with Kidder, and he has one with the lifters. If the situation really reflected poorly on the AC, then the WPO wouldn't be packing the auditorium each day. It's an extremely popular event. It draws people to the Arnold. There is no reason the AC should want to get rid of that kind of draw.

You do have a point that the fans have a right to be upset if they choose, but they keep coming back for more (for the most part). If the lifters would act together, they would be the ones with the most control in the situation. There is no show without the lifters.

The USPF is a great fed, but theres no place to go..no world championships...The APC is the place many APF memebers and promotors are turning to..same rules and gear, just no open back shirts ( not that big a deal anymore ) the judging is great and it's a democratic fed. ALso the only fed where money goes back to the lifter to pay for the worlds..and they are the US afiliate to the second largest international PL fed in the world, GPC.

That depends. If Lorimar can get the same product for less money (by being better at business than the WPO), then it's no big deal. In general, it would seem to be bad. Where are the details of this financial relationship available?

The Question is...Would ANY powerifting event at the Arnold draw a BIG crowd? Location...Location...Location!!!! There is a large crowd that is there for powerlifting, but there is an equally large if not larger attendance by those who support cheerleading, gymnastics, bodybuilding, figure & fitness, wrestling and obviously MMA. As I stood watching the bench bash, the first flight had huge numbers watching, the wings were packed with gawkers, but as the meet wore on, they dwindled. Where as I stood on the edge and couldn't move forward at the beginnig, at midway, I could have walked right up to the side of the stage. People stopped and watched for a few minutes, and then it was time to move on. The full meet was fortunate to have a ballroom of chairs, for weary people to sit in. As I walked throught the room, some of those seats occupied had no interest in the platform, heads were buried into the bags of free stuff they collected.

The WPO continues to return becuase the business relationship between them and the AC is that the AC will have to pay for "NOTHING". How can they pass that up? So instead the lifters pay for it all and get shafted in return. I'm sure the sponsors who awarded money to the winners held it tightly beofre personally handing it to them, cause we all know where it would have gone...what prize money, it's your fault there were no sponsors...

It would be really great if Louie and the EFS guys like Tate and Wendler got a fed going and took over the WPO spot at the AC. Those guys are the real deals. I just can't see Louie and the EFS guys pulling any of the dishonest crap that Kieran pulls.

By the way, that "he's in Chicago" thing is really lame. Kieran's like a little kid squealing on another kid. Is this really the guy who should be running the WPO?