Russia Suspended From IPF Competition

Not that surprised.
Do their records stand. If so the ban may not mean anything.

And do their victories count? Do people think that their records should stand?

Same deal as here I would imagine. Only records you were caught cheating at are stricken. Coan still has some IPF records I believe.

"Nick (the Russian) on goheavy:
now IPF must kill Ukraine, Poland and
BinDarMin Sutrisno.
americans then got 100% first places.

Korea
Viet-Nam
Kuveit
Afganistan
Iraque
-are GOOOD for AMERICA

Russian & Ukrainean powerlifting - is a next step of american democracy.
next step to era of GOLDEN BILLION"

If I were a Russian, somehow I think I would stick to powerlifting... IN SHAME AT THE REIGN OF HORROR MY COUNTRY HAD CREATED IN THE PREVIOUS CENTURY. It's bad enough that they murdered 75 million for political crimes, now the newly reformed pinkos have to cheat at powerlifting? When will the madness end?

But they're better than us because they train harder and smarter...

Any surprises on Kudinova (I'd like to hear Pricilla Ribic's take on this) or the previous lifetime ban imposed on Kutcher? No wonder he totals like 2200 or whatever at 165 while competing in the WPO with the gear and drugs allowed....

And we wonder why powerlifting will never be taken seriously by die hard sports enthusiasts?

"No wonder he totals like 2200 or whatever at 165 while competing in the WPO with the gear and drugs allowed...."

He has repeated doping offenses in the IPF. It is very clear that he was on both while competing in the IPF and the WPO, so there is no way to quantify any difference in drug regimen, unless you have an inside source. Nevermind the fact that he lifted in IPF-legal gear while in the WPO; I'd hate to confuse the issue with facts.

Ya, but he also passed tests under the IPF, which implies he was using something fancy (unlikely seeing as he did get caught), or he was doing what everyone else did and stop before the meet.

With the WPO there is no need to do this.

It also helps that he competed under 165 in the IPF with 2hr weighins and now gets to go to 165 with 24odd hours and blood removal... :)

Either way, his lifetime ban came from competing in the WPO against other ex-ipf'rs, the final staw was at the arnolds this year.

Yeah, Jared, I would hate to confuse the facts. Even with probably the same drug regimen his squat has improved by like 150 pounds since switching over to the WPO. I would say that would either be a gear or judging issue. Which one is it then, being that you are the all-knowing genius on this site?

You do mke some very valid points, Aaron. Thank you for the clarification.

For what it's worth, I saw Kutcher's squats at the Arnold and they were plenty legit.

Drugs and gear and the fact that the guy is simply freakish strong and probably as techinically accurate a lifter as was competing, I'm not surprised.

My take... it was only a matter of time.

They have never tested at their nationals, so to see the IPF go in and do testing was GREAT! 23 World records were broken this year alone at their nationals by the women, yet they are never ever claimed... and now the suspension list tells a little more of the tail on why. I am just waiting to see Marina's name stripped from the IPF Hall of Fame. I have always looked up to Marina and her perfectionist way of executing lifts, but the over time, because I became less naive and then noticed how hard her lifts looked when she has to be 'clean' for longer periods of time, i.e., doing Worlds, then being the in OMT pool for the World Games, then the World Games, I watched a powerful athlete who could pull 540 struggle with a hard third attempt deadlift of 485. Cleaning up and figuring out how strong they are going to still be must be a total b*tch for them. :)

I do think that if we had to compete head to head with them on an untested platform, we would get our asses handed to us, just look at their National results to see what force of power they are, scary!

I do find Nick's post on GoHeavy interesting. It is clear that he thinks that we are all on, but they are just better and stronger than we are. I know the US, the Scandinavian countries and the Brits are celebrating this suspension...not everyone plays they way they do, no matter what they think.

Priscilla

Nobody should be happy with this suspension. It is a great step backward. Sure, some steroid users were caught. But the IPF loses one of its key nations. And who was really to blame here? The Russian fed basically sanctioned doping in its athletes for years.

Now who are the ones who have to suffer from doing basically nothing more than what their fed expected? That's right: the Russian lifters. Not the Russian officials, who are the ones who were at the heart of this problem. If they had done some testing (not even necessarily OCT) then the IPF would never have stepped in.

So anyone who is truly happy with this is forgetting about all the Russian lifters (a lot of which have not tested positive!) who will now not get a chance to compete at the highest level. Plus banning them all devalues international competition almost as much as virtually sanctioned steroid use.

"Yeah, Jared, I would hate to confuse the facts. Even with probably the same drug regimen his squat has improved by like 150 pounds since switching over to the WPO. I would say that would either be a gear or judging issue. Which one is it then, being that you are the all-knowing genius on this site?"

Lets take a look at your logic. Since his squat increased by 150lbs, it MUST be drugs, gear, judging, or a combination of the three. I may as well go and help you out and throw the monolift in there as well. I have only seen people post that he wore single ply gear in the WPO. So it's not gear if that is the case. The drugs perhaps could have been different, but the change is completely impossible to quantify (but feel free to do so). As far as the judging, I believe his squats are up on irongame.com. Feel free to compare those videos with any videos of him squatting in the IPF.

Several other top IPF lifters (including WR holders) came over to the WPO and did not get nearly 150lbs on their squat. What was different about him? One thing might be his age. 6-12 months in one's early twenties can mean a lot more than in their upper 20's or later.

"Ya, but he also passed tests under the IPF, which implies he was using something fancy (unlikely seeing as he did get caught), or he was doing what everyone else did and stop before the meet.

With the WPO there is no need to do this. "

Pure conjecture as to the quantitative differences. We don't know what he was doing to beat the tests, nor do we know what he is doing in the WPO. I know WPO lifters that have come off for 18 months at a time and still won money during that time. No telling what he has or especially has not done.

"It also helps that he competed under 165 in the IPF with 2hr weighins and now gets to go to 165 with 24odd hours and blood removal... "

I would imagine this would be a big factor, but we don't know what he did to make weight in the IPF.

Pure conjecture as to the quantitative differences. We don't know what he was doing to beat the tests, nor do we know what he is doing in the WPO. I know WPO lifters that have come off for 18 months at a time and still won money during that time. No telling what he has or especially has not done.
just as its pure conjecture that he is following the same or any drug protocol. He may be drug free and failed in the IPF due to sensitivity/specificity issues.

I would imagine this would be a big factor, but we don't know what he did to make weight in the IPF.
in the

Stupid thing cut me off

I would imagine this would be a big factor, but we don't know what he did to make weight in the IPF.
In the less 2hrs following weighin (time depends on where you are in the weighin list) there aint enough to reinflate lost glycogen to any great extent (~1-4lbs maybe, not the 15-20 that some lose), and there is no time to reinstall the blood cos they have to warmup during that time as well

Nobody should be happy with this suspension. Sure, some steroid users were caught. But the IPF loses one of its key nations. And who was really to blame here? The Russian fed basically sanctioned doping in its athletes for years.

Nobody should be happy that anyone is using in a "drug free" federation. Would it have been better if Russian lifter weren't using and this didn't have to happen? Yes. But if it takes this suspension, and perhaps many more like it, to achieve a drug free federation, shouldn't people actually be happy with this move? Aren't the Russian lifters, whether under the guidance of coaches and administration, at fault? What would you have liked to see occur instead of the year suspension?

Nobody should be happy that anyone is using in a "drug free" federation.
True.

Would it have been better if Russian lifter weren't using and this didn't have to happen? Yes. But if it takes this suspension, and perhaps many more like it, to achieve a drug free federation, shouldn't people actually be happy with this move?
People can be as happy as they want about the IPF actually doing something to become drug free (a responsibility they have themselves shirked for decades, so I think it is quite hypocritical to now point the finger at the Russians for not acting quickly enough...)
What I find distasteful is the attitude that seems to be especially prevalent at the CPU forum, which can almost be summarised as: "finally they are all banned. Now lets ban every other country that has great lifters (because great lifters MUST be using!), so we can actually win something!". That is just pathetic.

Aren't the Russian lifters, whether under the guidance of coaches and administration, at fault?
Were a part of them cheating? Yes. But why? If the Russian FED had made sure testing was in place, then the playing field would have been level and Russian lifters wouldn't have needed to use steroids to even be able to compete at their own nationals. So I am all for severely punishing the federation, but not the lifters.

What would you have liked to see occur instead of the year suspension?
The complete management of the fed fined and banned permanently would have been a good start. And a temporary ban for all lifters who tested positive, who of course also broke the rules. I still think it is preposterous if not bordering on criminal to ban lifters who tested clean!

I still think it is preposterous if not bordering on criminal to ban lifters who tested clean!

They (russian federation) agreed to it when they agreed with the testing standards. They knew this when they broke the rules, they reap what they sew

"Bitch, Bitch and Complain", Lift were you want to and that is the bottom line. Someone can not cut it then they blame drugs; if that is not the case then they its energy drinks, things have gotten absolutely ridicules. People just need to admit there defeat when the better lifter wins, give them the respect they deserve. Then take your ass to the gym and better your self instead of living in a delusional world, of he did this and she did that. Far as Kutcher goes that is my damn hero, being a buck 65 and doing what he did. Hell I will be the first to say on this thread he is the man!

What I find distasteful is the attitude that seems to be especially prevalent at the CPU forum, which can almost be summarised as: "finally they are all banned. Now lets ban every other country that has great lifters (because great lifters MUST be using!), so we can actually win something!". That is just pathetic.

But is it pathetic if it's born from frustration and it's true? Are they saying to ban US lifters who are among the better lifters?

If the Russian FED had made sure testing was in place, then the playing field would have been level and Russian lifters wouldn't have needed to use steroids to even be able to compete at their own nationals. So I am all for severely punishing the federation, but not the lifters.

But in the end didn't the lifters knowingly cheat in order to compete in the IPF? Here's the choice these athletes had, as I see it: compete and cheat or compete but be uncompetitive. Both bad choices. Choosing the latter sucks. But choosing the former speaks to ones moral and ethical character doesn't it? Why not just go WPC if you're using?

The complete management of the fed fined and banned permanently would have been a good start. And a temporary ban for all lifters who tested positive, who of course also broke the rules.

Wouldn't that allow a country to never truly be penalized for an institutionalized drug program? All they would have to do is set-up disposable dummy administrations to take the fall for drug violations. Meanwhile the drug violating machine could continue humming along. Banning individual athletes doesn't address the systemic nature of the apparent corruption. The whole apparatus needs to be torn down and rebuilt. That's the message from this decision. The IPF's move shows that, at least for the time being, they're serious.

I still think it is preposterous if not bordering on criminal to ban lifters who tested clean!

Does anyone truly have a "right" to lift in the IPF?

Oh Dark Sith Lord of Hating, there's no question that Kutcher is the man. Now you don't advocate users compete in tested feds do you?

Jon like I said compete where you want to; the whole drug thing is vague and retarded. Hormone therapy in Body Building and Powerlifting as become a double edged standard. Human attributes are key we all have disadvantages and advantages that make up or body chemistry. The natural guy "so called" There is enough natural Herbs and Supplements out there were you can get a similar effect to AS. Let's take this a step further males that do not masturbate as much as other "sick topic I know” but a point to be made. Have less estrogen buildup and higher test levels “look it up if you do not believe me”. Hell even taking laxatives can be beneficial such as "Mineral Oil". So in my eyes the whole enhanced theory is bullshit and yes I say theory. Because all of us are enhancing in some way, either it be natural supplements or AS which hands down is a hell of allot cheaper! So however you slice it up they can test for AS in a meet, but myself and many others know there is alternatives available. Lets flip flop directions for a minute, I do not know anybody killed by AS. But do know people killed by alcohol related deaths and cancer from tobacco use. Can we say its politics involved, yes in my opinion they are not making anything of it. Always the what if’s “what is marijuana was legal” well then what will cops bust kids for. I am not easily blinded and I always look at things from both sides of the house. Back to the original subject is it fair “no”, but how many out there are really playing by the rules not many. Just my 2 cents!

They (russian federation) agreed to it when they agreed with the testing standards. They knew this when they broke the rules, they reap what they sew

Exactly: the Russian fed agreed to a rule, yet the Russian lifters (the clean ones) are now the ones getting shafted.

But is it pathetic if it's born from frustration and it's true? Are they saying to ban US lifters who are among the better lifters?
I didn't see anyone there who expressed their regret that this decision also affects lifters who tested negative. That gave me the impression they are just glad to get rid of some unbeatable competition, not glad to get rid of steroid users. I might be wrong there, though, but that's how it came across to me and other people.

But in the end didn't the lifters knowingly cheat in order to compete in the IPF? Here's the choice these athletes had, as I see it: compete and cheat or compete but be uncompetitive. Both bad choices. Choosing the latter sucks. But choosing the former speaks to ones moral and ethical character doesn't it? Why not just go WPC if you're using?
My whole point is: there is no "THE lifters". There was an inordinate amount of positives, but the three lifters who tested negative are now also screwed. In my opinion THAT is immoral/unethical.

Dark Lord, even if one were to agree with every single point you make above, isn't it still wrong for a user to compete in a "drug free" federation? You said that it's not fair, but isn't it cheating?

Phreak, in the IPF there is a "The Lifters". It's a team that's participating. There are no individual lifters. The team is under fair notice that it can be suspended. The lifters are part of that team.

Jon yes it is unfair; but it is human nature to take the easier road and also who wants to go to a gun fight with a knife.

It's a knife fight and those that are using are bringing the guns. So what does one who doesn't use but still wants to be competitive do (yes, some can be competitive while drug free)? If not IPF then who, the ADAU, WNPF, 100% Raw? But then what's stopping those bringing the guns from showing up at these meets? Where and how can a drug free lifter find competition against other drug free lifters? Is it an illusion? If they don't just want to compete against themselves, should they forget about competition altogether?

now the russians have the ukrainians to play with.
They got suspended too.
If you use dont compete in a drug free fed.