Bill Kazmaier On The NERB

Bill is just the guy we need to help get this sport to where it deserves to be. I hope the community is receptive to this and lends their support.

Dave Cosnotti

Bill is definately the man to get it rolling and I respect the hell out of him for stepping up. I myself am in full bore, I am not switching to 100% raw but I have a openmind and I am willing to help do anything to better the sport I love. If I can make money doing something I love to do ,who can tell me not to? I will always be a geared lifter but if doing some raw stuff can help better me and my family financially I'm in. It is not all about the money to me hell I have not even asked Dave what kinda $$$ we are looking at for this meet I just know it is taking the sport in good direction where people will be willing to give $$$$ for what we do, so I'm in. I dont know about the rest of ya, but i dont wanna work in a factory the rest of my life!!!

Well said Mike. That's why you are a true Champion.

Dave

sounds good. however i would like lifters over 60 to be able to use shirts and other equipment not so much for lifting more, for protection aganst injury. i have been benching for 9 years. never had an injury or pulled muscle. there are only a few lifters over 60 any way. i believe we are put up with. but not taken seriously. what would this hurt.

however i would like lifters over 60 to be able to use shirts and other equipment not so much for lifting more, for protection aganst injury.

I don't think anyone wants to take equipment away, whether in competition or in training. If you pose that question to Kazmaier, I'm sure he'll agree.

i believe we are put up with. but not taken seriously.

Forget the thought that you're not taken seriously. You're an inspiration to younger powerlifters every time they see you. Keep fighting the fight!

Mike, it would be great if all lifters were as open as you to accepting those who choose to lift raw or equipped. And even better, willing to compete in either arena. Ultimately, if one form of powerlifting is more attractive to fans and advertisers that may be the path to pursue, but meets of both type never have to stop.

I agree Jon.

me too, i have competed both ways, initially raw, because of my claustrophobia, and i felt good about both ways. the real problem is the division within the sport, until we get everyone under a unified front with one set of rules and guidelines we'll be backroom. for those guys bashing shaved heads and goattees, some of us are losing our hair and cant do anything else.

I am honored that I am associated with the New England Record Breakers. Finally, through the tremendous amount of energy and support that everyone is putting into this event, powerlifting is taking a step in the best direction possible. Even better, at such a young age, I am able to share the same stage with some of the greats of the sport and, be under the scrutiny of legends. I will do whatever I can to make sure this sport prevails with nothing less then greatness.

Sincerely,
Mike Pelosi
18 years old
SHW

While I agree with most of what Mr. Kazmaier says in his piece, I don't agree with his statement that our sport is a "back yard circus act" and is "looked down upon by the genral public."

In general, I feel good about what I do and I'm sure that others will admit to the same. Additionally, my feeling is that the general public is not really aware of what powerlifting is. When I have an opportunity to talk to the unknowing about powerlifting, the first thing they think of is weightlifting and the Olympics. Once the difference is explained to them, I usually come away with the sense that they feel that powerlifters are a bunch of gym rats who try to lift heavy weight at the risk of bodily injury. And when I speak to the unknowing about meets and equipment, they usually nod absent mindedly at this point, really to the point of being disinterested. For those who are still keeping up with the conversation, it takes a great deal of verbal skill to adequately explain how the equipment (shirts and suits) are utilized. Additionally, when the amount of weight that is being lifted is disclosed, the range of response goes from incredulous to "they must be using drugs." No connection to the equipment is usually made because they are unable to. The time spent trying to make the unknowing understand that lifter+training+equipment=total goes haywire in their mind and the feed back is looks more like this; lifter+nuts+drugs=a hernia in the making. Nowhere in their mind does the element of equipment and training register unless they actually spend some time around the sport.

Athletes like us have been plying our trade for years. Strength athletes in particular have been viewed as freaks of nature since their hands wrapped around a barbell and they hoisted heavy weight. Unlike those who climb mountains, jump out of airplanes, body build or race cars around an oval (all types of sport that the general public have varying degress of outside the loop or their mind kind of participants) we never have had the following or fan base due to the lack of interest. A lot can be pointed to as to why that is. But, I think powerlifting is a challenge to the indivdual on a personal level that unless you are related, a friend of someone who participates in lifting or facinated by feats of strength, an expanded fan base is not likely to come using the current format we use. It needs to be streamlined and marketable to fans sort of like extreme boxing and strong man competitons have. Right now, we don't even get the interest that professional wrestling reaceives and with all due respect to professional wrestlers, I think we got something much more challenging that can be inclusive and can be much more entertaining.

I appreciate and applaud the efforts of the organizers of the NERB. I support thier efforts and will be at the meet in little under two weeks. I welcome any and all support or efforts to expand the base of our sport and further its greatness. I too would like to see the sport come together with less feds and/or one unified organization. It is a challenge I'm sure that those involved with the NERB are much better able and more qualified than I to make happen. I wish them luck and can only offer my support and willingness to help achieve stated goals as much as I am called upon to do. In the mean while, I will continue to work at the grass roots level to ensure that the lifter is treated as number one and continue to help the sport grow by being the best ambassador I can be.
Lift..., what else?

Muse,

While Kaz's words may be a bit on the strong side (he's never been too concerned about being politically correct or sensitive). I think the general tone of his message is correct.

Powerlifting HAS a serious image problem, and to the extent the sport ever wants to be taken seriously by the general public, I think it has to address why reasons that got it there. And sadly, I think they are exactly what we're discussing here:

1. Drugs - most of the top federations that boast the highest totals don't drug test. Moreover, when an "outsider" goes on to a powerlifting website to learn more about the sport they quickly see that most of the top guys use steroids and that many wannabe top guys are discussing which steroid cycles are best. Now clearly, not everyone uses ... but the public perception that most of the champions do is not too far off the mark.

2. Equipment - again, consider Mr. or Ms. General Public doing some research into powerlifting because he or she is getting interested in the sport. The person will quickly learn that 10 or 15 years ago the top bench was in the 700 range ... now it's over a 1000. Wow! He or she will say, these guys are getting stronger fast. Well no ... with just a bit more reading he or she will learn that these guys are still only pressing in the 700 range but now they have suits that give 'em an extra 300 pounds of oomph. Further, many of the aspiring powerlifters are busy discussing which suit is best and how best to utilize them. Credibility takes another hit ...

3. Proliferation of federations and questionable judging. OK, so now Mr. or Ms. Outsider is disillusioned, he or she is thinking "these guys are only strong because they're juiced AND wearing equipment that inflates their totals". Here comes strike 3 ... everytime someone reports a record lift it's followed by a dozen messages that say "Yeah, but the lift was high and it was in this backyard federation that's only half legit, and the judging sucked, and that person uses drugs, and he/she was using fancy equipment". Ouch! Mr. or Ms. Outsider probably moves on to something else.

Contrast this with what Mr. or Ms. Outsider would find if they wandered onto an Olympic Weightlifting site (or even a strongman site). They wouldn't find half this squabbling, backstabbing, arguing etc (especially on the O lifting site, Strongman has started to get worse lately).

Now, if the powerlifting community wants to say "we don't care, outsiders opinions don't count and we like our sport the way it is!" (a common attitude) then fine, in a way that's right, outsiders SHOULDN'T control what the sport does. If people want to lift in a multiplicity of feds, many of which allow drugs and equipment, all the power to 'em. However, to the extent PL ever WANTS to be taken seriously by people outside of those who do it and their fans, it needs to face the reality of why it currently isn't.

I HAVE BEEN POWERLIFTING FOR SOME TIME NOW AND I HAVE SEEN THIS SPORT GO DOWN HILL IN THE LAST 5 YRS,I FEEL THAT IT HAS BECOME A JOKE AMD I AGREE WITH KAZ THAT THIS SPORT HAS BECOME A CIRCUS ACT, AND AN EGO TOOL,TAKE OFF THE CHEAT GEAR AND LETS SEE WHAT YOU CN DO, IF MIKE MILLER CAN HALF SQUAT 1200, AND A SPONSOR CAN USE THAT TO THIER ADVANTAGE THAN WHY WOULD THEY WANT THAT CREEP TO COMPETE IN THE NERB AND SQUAT 800,#'S WILL DEFINATELY TAKE A HIT BC GUYS ARE GETTING 200-300 POUNDS OUT OF THIS GEAR,AND WHY AREN'T ANY OF THAT LOUIE SIMMONS LIFTERS COMPEATING. PROBALY BC HE CAN'T RUN AROUND THERE LIKE AN IDIOT AND SWAY THE CALLS BY THE JUDGES LIKE HE HAS DONE AT THE IPA MEETS FOR YRS.WHY ISN'T THAT SLOB WITH THE BLOND MOHAWK GOING BC HE CAN'T BRING HIS OWN EQUIPMENT IT SICKENS ME WHERE THIS SPORT HAS GONE IT IS WORSE THAN THE WWE.

I AGREE WITH THAT GUY COUETTE ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW IF SIMMONS IS AN ALCH I DO KNOW HE IS RUINING THE SPORT WITH HIS LIFTING STYLE,GO RAW GO HEAVY OR GO CHEAT AT THE IPA.

hey jeff your the guy that was wearing the pink tank top at the 100 raw event in the 308 class good lift 255 pounds

Look at whats transpiring in these comments. Come on guys, dont talk about circus acts then go post one of your own. I really believe we should try to get along, as it will help out the sport on a tremendous level.

Sincerely,
Mike Pelosi
18 Years Old
SHW

Doc,
I won't participate in a Fed that does not drug test for the reasons you submitted. The lack of drug testing has been a detriment to our sport. I agree that credibility is lost on this point. I will ask the following though; will the lifters at the NERB be tested?

Lifters have been seeking ways to improve their totals through the use of wearable devices since powerlifting became a organized sport. If I'm wrong, please let me know. But, be prepared to support the argument. Recently on this board, it was noted how lifters would place tennis balls behind their knees. Knee wraps have been used forever. I don't agree with the use of equipment (would rather not be bothered with putting it on or spending dollars to purchase). But, if it is going to be allowed, I am going to use it and support its use through the feds I am affiliated.

I addressed the issue of judging in another thread here on this board. Yes, lifters, fans and observers need to have confidence in the capabilites of judges and the judges have to have credentials that carry weight. But,
judges are human and like opinions..., everyone has one. Part of the human element.

Yes, I like what I am doing. I think the feds in which I participate are not far off the mark when it comes to being representative of what powerlifting is all about. I am not sponsored by anyone nor do I receive monetary support. I am an amateur in the truest sense of the word. I do use vitamin supplements.

Yes, I do support what Mr.Kazmaier and the organizers are trying to do. But, only if it is with the honest of intentions and there is serious follow-through (including making drug testing a center piece of their effort). It would bring credibility to the sport if they are able to pull it off. Yes, I think there will be resistance on the part of lifters from all corners of the sport. And that resistance will not come due to a manufacturers prodding. It will be due to lifters wanting to have certain pieces of lifting attire for their unique reasons.

We are all going to do what we feel is right. That includes lifting where we feel more comfortable. While fighting between feds (and even inside 'em too) is rampant, is it for the very same reason that the proposed org here is being recommended? If it is, then I feel it is for all the wrong reasons. We don't need another group running around feeling like they're holier than the rest. And while I'm at it, it always frustrates me when someone accuses another of using drugs. How do you know short of testing? Yes, things add up, but there is that shadow of doubt. If it is going to be done, do it for all the right reasons. Don't let negativity get in the way or play a part.
Lift..., what else?

1. "Powerlifting can be great again with federations like Atlantis and 100% Raw."

Absolutely... If it floats your boat, then do it!

2. "Sadly,two individuals,one in particular,changed all that and have brought powerlifting to the the confused,unacceptable new low we now have."

The only thing sad is his attitude - whining about a sport that evolved and subsequently took his records away... This guy powerlifted 30 - 35 years ago! Maybe if he had lifted with a shirt, he wouldn't have torn a pec. Bottom line, his bench weights were poor for an athlete of his level, because he didn't lift smart. To borrow a line from a song:

My name is might have been
My name is never was
My name’s forgotten

Just an old man bitching about the kids running through what he thinks is his lawn. In powerlifting you're not entitled to anything, you take it.

the real problem is the division within the sport, until we get everyone under a unified front with one set of rules and guidelines we'll be backroom.

But which set of rules? Will the one set allow for both raw and equipped lifting?

I will do whatever I can to make sure this sport prevails with nothing less then greatness.

Mike, best of luck at NERB's. We look forward to seeing your contributions to the sport in the coming years.

Additionally, my feeling is that the general public is not really aware of what powerlifting is.

That seems to be a more accurate appraisal.

Nowhere in their mind does the element of equipment and training register unless they actually spend some time around the sport.

Even those who spend time in the gym can understand equipment. But what they don't seem to understand is why equipment. So if we move someone from the unknowing and unaware to a potential fan, now do they view powerlifting as a backyard circus act? Is this really what Kaz was suggesting?

However, to the extent PL ever WANTS to be taken seriously by people outside of those who do it and their fans, it needs to face the reality of why it currently isn't.

Doc, you mention three issues that certainly are at the forefront of powerlifting discussions. In order of importance to widening powerlifting's appeal how would you place them? While controversal, do you think all three must be addressed to move forwards? Do you think that competition format is an issue?

MIKE MILLER CAN HALF SQUAT 1200, AND A SPONSOR CAN USE THAT TO THIER ADVANTAGE THAN WHY WOULD THEY WANT THAT CREEP TO COMPETE IN THE NERB AND SQUAT 800,#'S

A better question is why wouldn't the equipment manufacturers want him there. His performance would be a testament to the performance of the equipment.

"The only thing sad is his attitude - whining about a sport that evolved and subsequently took his records away... This guy powerlifted 30 - 35 years ago! Maybe if he had lifted with a shirt, he wouldn't have torn a pec. Bottom line, his bench weights were poor for an athlete of his level, because he didn't lift smart."

Stop smoking that crack, boy. He held the IPF SHW bench record for over a decade. And yes, he tore his pec -- in a strongman comp!

hey jeff your the guy that was wearing the pink tank top at the 100 raw event in the 308 class good lift 255 pounds

Shouldn't that be applauded just like every other good lift? If your point is that lifts are lower in unequipped federations, you're right. But isn't a 600 or 700 pound bench unequipped just as exciting as a 800-1,000 pound equipped one?

"Stop smoking that crack, boy. He held the IPF SHW bench record for over a decade. And yes, he tore his pec -- in a strongman comp!"

If 6 and change was the SHW record they were pussies - I'll open with that in my workout today. Get your facts straight. Lost strongman in 79 (3rd) and came back jacked 50 or 60 pounds heavier the next year - hooray for pharmaceuticals. Bending the bar excuse was a cop out - I'm just saying that unless you're competing in todays competitions - your opinion doesn't matter...

The lack of drug testing has been a detriment to our sport.

No matter whether powerlifting is drug tested or not, won't the public and fans think that lifters are using? Look at other major sports like baseball, football and cycling. Most of the "hits" taken by these sports or its athletes are media or governmental generated. If that's the case, why bother drug testing? How does powerlifting lose crediblity?

The only thing sad is his attitude - whining about a sport that evolved and subsequently took his records away... This guy powerlifted 30 - 35 years ago! Maybe if he had lifted with a shirt, he wouldn't have torn a pec. Bottom line, his bench weights were poor for an athlete of his level, because he didn't lift smart...

If 6 and change was the SHW record they were pussies - I'll open with that in my workout today.

This is a man whose efforts in powerlifting deserve all of our respect!

I'm just saying that unless you're competing in todays competitions - your opinion doesn't matter.

Why must he be competing for his opinion to matter?

STOP ALL OF THE BASHING, I AM GUILY OF IT AS WELL BUT THIS PROVES MY PT AND FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE GOING TO EVEN CONSIDER BASHING A GUY AS GREAT AS KAZ, YOU MUST BE INSANE BUT GUESS ITS BETTR TO BENCH 1000 AT SHW AND USE THE THICK COLLAR OF THE SHIRT TO REST THE WEIGHT ON AND PULL IT DOWN TO YOUR NIPPLES, THAN TO BENCH 200 LBS RAW I HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR THAT GUY IN THE PINK SHIRT THAN FOR A FAKE IN A TRIPLE DENIM WITH A PIECE OF KEVLAR SEWN IN.

"This is a man whose efforts in powerlifting deserve all of our respect!"

He deserves nothing - he's pissing on my sport. You might take it with a smile, I'm not that way. This site makes out powerlifting to be some sort of quilting bee or daisy chain social gathering.

THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURES WOULD NOT WANT HIM THERE BC THAN TO THE NON-POWERLIFTING COMMUNITY THEY MAY SAY TO THEMSELVES WHY CAN THIS GUY SQUAT 1200 IN A CANVAS SUIT BUT ONLY 800 RAW,SEE MY PT MORE CLEARLY NOW?

"Why must he be competing for his opinion to matter?"

Since he admits to not being an equipt lifter, how the hell does he know what he is talking about?

Irresponsible statement all the way around, and he'll get a youngster or older lifter hurt in the process.

hey joe you every hold a 1000 pounds in your hands

Jon, The way I read the statement, it was intended in the general sense and not specific to any one thing. Instead, it is a reference to a compulation of problems. To tear down each of them would be like trying to change culture which would not happen overnight. Changing culture takes time and patience. What I read here is that the wager is that if there is a strong showing of support, there will be mandate. But, what are we voting for by supporting or attending NERB? It is meet that some of the icons of our sport will be lifting at. We (at least I don't) don't even know what the rules will be.

My opinion is that if you have a better way, put it in play and let the lifters decide for themselves. If they leave their current Feds and come to the newly created one, then there is a mandate.

In the mean while, I'm going to look forward to seeing a great meet and if more like it comes along, I will probably go see them too. Then if a fed takes root and spreads across the country, I will take a look at what they are doing and perhaps consider being a part of that too.

Perhaps I'm not sure what the arguing is all about either. We haven't a clue what the specifics are, and just because someone supports someone else who doesn't like somebody else who peed in somone elses cereal who called another a dirty name which spread throughout the school and then half the school thought the other had a bad reputation while the other half laughed about it and carried on like a bunch of baffoons..., well you kinda' get the idea why I am now confused too!
Lift..., what else?

"well you kinda' get the idea why I am now confused too!"

If an individual came out in public and openly mocked and belittled the sport/organization he competed in back in the day - he would have gone apeshit.

He deserves nothing - he's pissing on my sport. You might take it with a smile, I'm not that way. This site makes out powerlifting to be some sort of quilting bee or daisy chain social gathering.

No, he's trying to suggest a movement that will bring the sport in the direction he thinks will make it better. You may disagree that it's the right direction. But all of your arguments are discounted when you start questioning his achievements as a powerlifter.

Now if I only knew what a quilting bee was...

THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURES WOULD NOT WANT HIM THERE BC THAN TO THE NON-POWERLIFTING COMMUNITY THEY MAY SAY TO THEMSELVES WHY CAN THIS GUY SQUAT 1200 IN A CANVAS SUIT BUT ONLY 800 RAW,SEE MY PT MORE CLEARLY NOW?

Is there a non-powerlifting community which follows powerlifting?

NO I NEVER HELD 1000 IN MY HANDS HAVE YOU EVER DONE IT WITHOUT A SHIRT ON. YOU OBVIOUSLT CAN'T SEE MY PT ON THE WHOLE ISSUE, WHY DON'T WE NOT REGULATE MLB AND LET GUYS CORK THERE BATS, THAN HIT THE BALL 900 FT, JUST THEY CAN WALK AROUD AND SAY I HIT A 900 FT HOMERUN IS HE ANY BETTER THAN THE GUY WHO HITS ONE 400T IN YOUR WORLD MAYBE.

Since he admits to not being an equipt lifter, how the hell does he know what he is talking about?

One doesn't have to be an equipped lifter to make an observation about what equipped lifting may or may not be doing to powerlifting. Now if he were giving advice about shirted lifting, you might be able to question his position.

If an individual came out in public and openly mocked and belittled the sport/organization he competed in back in the day - he would have gone apeshit.

Probably right. And that may be the natural reaction to Kazmaier's statments or perhaps more accurately, the way they're delivered. But take a step back and ask yourself if you think he's just trying to be malicious.

YES PEOPLE WATCH WSM ON ESPN AND MANY DON'T EVEN WORKOUT,TAKE THOSE SAME PEOPLE AND THAT WATCH THE SHOW AND NOW TELL THEM THESE GUYS HAVE SPECIAL EQUIPMENT ON THAT ALLOWS THEM TO HANDLE MORE WEIGHT I WILL BET MY MORTGAGE THAT THE MYSTIQUE WILL BE GONE AND THEY WILL TURN IT OFF!

"questioning his achievements as a powerlifter."

Has been... I don't see how he gets any lifting done at all with so many people hugging his nuts.

He's still pissing on your head as a competing/equipt powerlifter with his statement...

Quilting bee = social gathering that doesn't amount to anything other than playing the same tired old record over and over.

Knowing what you stand for, limits what you will fall for...

HEY JOE COUETTE!!!!!!!!!!

HI My name is Mike Wolfe and to let you know I am LOUIE SIMMON'S BIGGEST BENCHER 830 pounds shirted!!!!! Google my name you will see. Lou told me to do this meet, he can see that it has its good points and and to him it has its bad points. All of you guys that bash Lou really dont know Lou. Have you ever talked to Lou personally, or are you just going off of what everyone else says? Lou has done more for geared powerlifting then most people could even think about trying, He is rough and rugged and he dont take shit off anyone and he dont give a fuck what any internet haters think about him but in the geared part of the sport Lou is a legend whether you agree or not and WESTSIDE is a MECCA for guys in the geared side of the sport. But dont blow off about Lou and Westside before you know what is going on cause 2 of the biggest benchers coming to the NERB are both Westsiders and we are backed by Lou and his Dark Army!!!! MIKE WOLFE AND NICK WINTERS!!!!!!

My opinion is that if you have a better way, put it in play and let the lifters decide for themselves. If they leave their current Feds and come to the newly created one, then there is a mandate.

It's one thing for this to happen at the highest level and another for that mandate to occur at the grassroots level. It's quite clear that it probably never will at the grassroots level and why should it? But the highest levels are the public face of powerlifting. Won't its presentation be "powerlifting"? Is it inevitable that this will end up being where the money is paid, regardless of the format? Really, what kind of mandate is that?

Hey Joe if you look on WSM some are wearing gear also!!!

"Probably right. And that may be the natural reaction to Kazmaier's statments or perhaps more accurately, the way they're delivered. But take a step back and ask yourself if you think he's just trying to be malicious."

I think he's doing the same thing Ted Arcidi and Fred Hatfield have done, belittle the whole deal because they either arrived late to the equipt show or "didn't buy that stock" when it was fresh or new. Unfortunately for them they didn't jump on the equipt train and it passed them by and now it's the norm. I don't need them belittling my hard work.

Couldn't be that they truly believe what they say?

Oh and I forgot to mention our strongest lady Amy Weisberger is also making the trip for the full powermeet and she is right outta Westside also!!!

i just googled your name on the xtreme site and like i mentioned the shirt is pulled over your nipples, now i am not knocking your abilities at all and you are brutility strong raw but you acn see my pt can't you?

well said mike. kaz is an amazing lifter and noone has the right to talk shit about him noone on the forum has the right to talk shit about lou either he has done for the sport than anyone i can think of. you all have some good points, but lets face facts geared lifter will never go 100% raw thats why there are many different feds out there for everyone to choose from based on there style/beliefs. so basicly evryone needs to quite there fucking bitching and move on if you spent more time training than getting all pissed off about RAW!!!!! VS equipped maybe you would get stronger?

Like i said joe i am a geared lifter and will always be one, I have no plans of becoming a 100% raw lifter but for me if I can do both and advance the sport and make money I'm gonna do it.Our sport has evolved into a BIG Circus and I enjoy being a circus freak. Yeah my shirt is jacked and that is how i wear it to get the best pop out of the thing, but if we want our sport to be mainstream and make money there is gonna have to be a line drawn or a fed made that will promote the sport in a way spectators and the general public will react to it.

Ok here is a good example, I myself use to captain a national level tournament paintball team. Paintball started in the woods and alot of people wanted it to stay in the woods,but for it to go mainstream something had to give. Alolng came what is now known as airball inflatabble bunkers that can be setup in minutes on an open field. Wham put up some netting throw in some bleachers and you got a spectator friendly sport.Paintball is all over TV now with alot of the NPPL and PSP events airing on sports channels. Players now use Bright Neon colored Jerseys and shocking anodized colored guns. It is an all out a gun battle that makes for some pretty neat spectator enjoyment.Paintball is now a Multi Billion dollar industry and it is people friendly with all kinds if sponsors in and out of the industry. But paintball still has its woodball also which is part of that billion dollar industry. My point is yeah things need to be changed or added to make us spectator and out of industry sponsor friendly but there will always be us who choose to use gear and with that there will always be big numbers. Put an astric next to them if you must but gear is here and it aint going no where.Everyone needs to be openmined about it and realize that some plan on using it and wont change to 100% raw.

"One doesn't have to be an equipped lifter to make an observation about what equipped lifting may or may not be doing to powerlifting. Now if he were giving advice about shirted lifting, you might be able to question his position."

That's some circular logic right there... And its wrong. How do I know? I bench raw and shirted and in denim. His numbers aren't even close to mine, because I've lifted uninjured for many years... End of argument - my numbers are bigger than his - I win... That, in a nutshell is what powerlifting is all about.

Squatting is the culprit in this discussion, and squat suits have gotten a little sketchy. I think we're looking at the limits of that particular exercise.

I think I finally got clarity! Thanks Jon and Mike. You both helped me make since of all this. I was beginning to get way off track.
Lift..., what else?

End of argument - my numbers are bigger than his - I win... That, in a nutshell is what powerlifting is all about.

On the platform, numbers dictate the winner. Sorry, but life ain't that way - your big bench press gets you nothing. However, there are other numbers which do count. The number of sponsors which can be brought to the table, the number of dollars they bring, the number of fans that can be attracted to powerlifting, etc. The search for these numbers does not require a big shirted bench! That's what Kazmaier is talking about. He may be wrong, but he's certainly in a position to comment on it.

Then he needs to call it what it is - a business venture designed to put money into his pocket and the Atlantis organization pocket. Not some holy grail search for the "best" lifter.

Over and out, I've got some lifting to do - thanks for the motivation...

How about a business venture to grow powerlifting, to find the right format which sponsors and advertisers will respond, and to reward powerlifters? This event doesn't appear to be billing itself as the search for the best lifter, although it certainly has attracted some of the best. Although, wouldn't a unified meet which answered that search be incredible?

SFW!

there are tons of meets all over the place - why has NERB gotten this much attention over all the others, from some of the giants of the sport? because it's RAW.

super cheatgear lifting is a joke, and it has gotten to the point where you can't deny it with a straight face.

people are interested in this meet because they want to see what people can LIFT, not how much they "can get out of a shirt"

Kaz I look forward to meeting you at the NERB and feel your presence will be a great inspiration to all the lifters competing and watching as to what our sport should be. Your comments are right on the mark and straight to the point.

Mike I can’t wait to see your huge raw bench and the battle that will ensue between Nick Winters and yourself.

Just the fact that some of the best lifters in the world regardless of federation and drug testing status coming together to compete in one venue for a single event will be something that our sport hasn’t seen in 20+ years and should be celebrated.

there are tons of meets all over the place - why has NERB gotten this much attention over all the others, from some of the giants of the sport? because it's RAW.

That may be part of it. But other contributors are the quality of the talent participating, the prize payouts and the hard work of Dave Cosnotti, Bruce Derosier and the lifters in promoting the event.

Just the fact that some of the best lifters in the world regardless of federation and drug testing status coming together to compete in one venue for a single event will be something that our sport hasn’t seen in 20+ years and should be celebrated.

Well said Rich. Let's hope there's more of this in the future!

i hold 1300 pounds in my hands shirt and no shirt it is alot of weight damn near black out

Well put Mr.Kazmaier....

I will more than likely always compete in gear but I will most defianitly hit this meet every year. I think this will lend tremendous credibility back to the sport. I have enjoyed training raw for this meet and I think if done properly you can do it for a long time....

See you at NERB

I would disagree with this

1. "Powerlifting can be great again with federations like Atlantis and 100% Raw."

There are many more sponsers involved in this than the powerlifting portion of the arnold...and it makes much more sense to the general public...

Absolutely... If it floats your boat, then do it!

2. "Sadly,two individuals,one in particular,changed all that and have brought powerlifting to the the confused,unacceptable new low we now have." This is true tell me the last time you saw powerlifting on tv better yet go to your local bar and ask10 people what three lifts are in powerlifting..then ask the wh , pardon the spelling Mariusz Pudzianowski is.

The only thing sad is his attitude - whining about a sport that evolved and subsequently took his records away... This guy powerlifted 30 - 35 years ago! Maybe if he had lifted with a shirt, he wouldn't have torn a pec. Bottom line, his bench weights were poor for an athlete of his level, because he didn't lift smart. To borrow a line from a song: I don't think he is whining I think you have a man who is appionate about a sport and is sad to see what it has become...as far as records when you are th first to do something no one can take it away...

My name is might have been
My name is never was
My name’s forgotten

Just an old man bitching about the kids running through what he thinks is his lawn. In powerlifting you're not entitled to anything, you take it. This is just a silly statement The man has won more titles set more rcords and I doubt seriously if anyone has forgotten his name..

What a mess you guys finally get an honest name in the sport, Kaz, to help advance the sport and all you do is bitch and complain. this sport is going nowhere until the ferations come together and the players(lifters) start acting like professionals and "show" thier stuff in competitions instead of just mouthing off. Man. what a bunch of whiners......

the players(lifters) start acting like professionals and "show" thier stuff in competitions instead of just mouthing off.

Most who offer their opinions are participants in powerlifting. They'll never be professionals and we probably can't demand they act like "professionals". What little of a professional ranks powerlifting has, do get out on the platfrom and compete. Many also reach out to and interact with fans in public venues... unlike players in most other sports. If professional means for them to isolate themselves from the fans, then I hope they remain unprofessional.

"I would disagree with this"

You should probably point out that you are a competitor, one of the main draws and ultimately stand to make some sort of financial gain @ the Nerb , so your opinion is biased...

He's not know for powerlifting - he's known for strongman... No body pays attention to powerlifting other than the practitioners and their family and friends.

I'm a high school powerlifter and have been for three years. I'm not great but I love it. I'd love to see powerlifting as an olympic sport, but with such controversy on equipment, I don't know if it'll ever happen. It would be great if people would go raw because there would be much greater chance for powerlifting to be accepted into the Olympics and the public opinion would improve as well. I personally would like to see how strong people really are without suits.

If people want to use suits, I think they should have really strict regulations. Powerlifting doesn't get the credit it deserves and it'd be nice to see it thrive.

annonomous said:

If 6 and change was the SHW record they were pussies - I'll open with that in my workout today. Get your facts straight. Lost strongman in 79 (3rd) and came back jacked 50 or 60 pounds heavier the next year - hooray for pharmaceuticals. Bending the bar excuse was a cop out - I'm just saying that unless you're competing in todays competitions - your opinion doesn't matter...

its these kind of posts, that i suspect are trying to stir everyone up. I highly doubt that this guy believes that a 6 and change raw bench is bad. but if he's serious and opens with that, its obviously with lots of gear. and if this guy is such a great powerlifter with a 600 opener, why not post a name and put some credibility to it.
and anyone that calls a legend like kaz a pussie, is probably just mad that his 600 lb bench isnt taken seriously cause no one cares about a geared 600 bench anymore.

Kaz, I'm a little confused. Who are you referring to when you say; "Sadly,two individuals,one in particular,changed all that and have brought powerlifting to the the confused,unacceptable new low we now have" are you talking about equipment? And where do you stand on use of the Monolift . . . now, that is?
Remember me?
Marylou

Oh no, Master Monster, Paul and Anonymous might not like Kazmaier anymore cause he pointed out that they're jokes. Oh well, the world will continue it's rotation.

nobody understood curling until espn explained it over and over again. nascar has a problem equivilant to gear. a circus is watching some guy gorge himself eating 66 hotdogs in a hotdog eating contest on espn.

try it. get a shirt that takes 1000 pounds to touch. see if you will lift it. it wont happen.

there was so much interest that 3 people showed up to watch in the stands last time. even with the legendary kaz and coan there, nobody showed up to watch. at the wsm finals maybe 50 people were in the crowd. at least at benchamerica there were hundreds in the stands(remote location also). thousands show up to the wpo finals and fitexpo. nobody wants to show up and pay to watch a show and somebody lifts benches 400. they can watch that at their local gym. sad but true.

I have lifted both ways and like both ways and am intitled to share my opinon on the subject. I truely believe true strength is Raw strength. If equiptment has become the down fall to Powerlifting than it is no one fault but our own,
it is my true opinon that we have given our sport to the equiptment makers, they make all the money at the lifters exspense. I have been preaching this for years., and every new lifter that joins our gym goes straight out and buys 1000's of dollars of gear and starts trying to lift in it, now that's crazy. They never squat 135 in there life without a 250.00 pair of briefs and a 250.00 sqaut suit and start competing, I see it every day in our own gym., and every weekend on the competition floor. What tickles me is that this new lifter automatically come back in the gym bragging that he is being sponsored by some of the equiptment people, these new lifters have never competed before in there life and now they are being sponsored. These equiptment people convience these new lifters that they are sponsoring them by giving them 10% off of a suit that they are saling them for 250.00. There is no way blue jean material cost that much, if it did blue jeans would be 500.00 a pair. But now that the equiptment people have made this new lifter feel important, he runs back and tells all his little buddies that have never lifted either just how he has a sponsor and now they all run and spend 250.00 so they can be sponsored too, what a great gemic.
It is also my true opinon all Powerlifters deserve to have sponsors, but just remember Sponsor give you MONEY not cost you MONEY.
If everyone went RAW one year most of these
equiptment people would be gone alone with the new lifter that has no base, but will never happen because of why MOMEY and the NON POWERLIFTER can't lift without suit and shirts.
Now I want to make it clear that I am only refurring to the new gym rat that wants to compete after working out no time at all and thinks to equiptment now days anyone and everyone does. As i said I lift sometimes in Equiptment too and not to good either way have nothing against using it, its the new people starting out in it and never getting any better
that i have a problem with along with the fat cats that get all the money and the lifters do all the work

i enjoy raw and equipt lifting. i dont think equiptment is the downfall of the sport. but, i DO think that the downfall of the sport is too many feds. there is enough room out there for single ply, multiply and raw lifting. At the most 6 feds, 2 each for tested and non tested divisions.
but, not 25!

How could to many federations be anyones down fall, it just gives more people a place to compete and gives everyone a choice, if you don't get treated fair one place go another, just like McDonalds, if you don't like it don't go.
Equiptment is not a down fall and niether is the federations, people like having choices and people like having something to grip about, if it is not one thing it will be something else.
I like gripping as much as the next person and my wife says I am better at it then most. No one person can ruin the Sport of Powerlifting as long as there is freedom of choice. Let it come down to only being one Federation to compete in and see how things goes, regardless of the name of the federation.
Since Powerlifting Watch is keeping the rankings the way they are it doesn't matter where you compete you are all still ranked together to see who really is the strongest so now all you have to worry about is how you are treated when competing, no more home cooking or just go to another Federation.
Respectfully
Jesse Rodgers SPF

Hi people, I just would like to know how can I talk to Bill Kazmaier?
Thank you so much.

Geeze when a legend like Kaz offers to do all that he can to help the sport, and then someone calls him a 'pussy'!!! That is weak!!!!

Kaz is one of the strongest men to have ever walked the planet. Most importantly Kaz is, and has always been a stand up guy. I applaud him on his offer to do his best to take Powerlifting to a better place. Thanks Bill!

its amazing that a guy who says gear is cheating(and is very verbal about it) thinks it is alright for drugs to be used. why?

he never mentions how the competitors cheat by using drugs and say its cheating. why?

bill, drugs are ILLEGAL! gear is NOT.
so, which one is cheating, bill??????

drugs is cheating and ILLEGAL.
not gear. be smart.

the nerb got soooo much attention.
that is why 5 people showed up in the stands.

people are interested in this sport because they want to see what people can LIFT, not how much they "can get out of drugs"

the problem is he says gear is cheating.

but not drugs???????

come on man. you get respect when you give it.
its amazing that a guy who holds the all time bench record raw is an equipt lifter.

his 661 lift is an amazing lift. he is a legend.
it still would be an amazing lift.

but, the problem is that if he truly wanted to see what people really lift, then why wouldnt he promote a show that drug tests and is raw?

i think more feds is the problem.
everybody wants to see the best go against the
best. you get that with less feds.
apf,apa,upa,ipa,apdf,spf,slp,usapl,uspf,nasa,localfeds,aau,aapf,wabdl,etc. its getting out of hand.
if you say you are a world champ, it is supposed to mean something. if you go to nasa championships and dont face anyone and become the champ that cheapins the sport.

heres an idea. 4 feds.
apf(non-tested multiply)
usapl(tested single ply)
100% raw
wabdl(tested single lifts)

thats it. then being a champ would mean a whole lot more.

the problem is he says gear is cheating.

but not drugs???????

good point. any comments?

The only time I can see the drug issue as cheating is if your competing in a tested fed while using. Whether or not these guys are using is irrelevant because they are lifting in untested feds anyway.. Then you have the issue of the legal steroids which are just as strong as the illegal ones. We have older lifters on hrt that are considered "using" whether they used the prescribed amount or not, but it's ok to use superdrol, havoc or tren extreme and compete drug free. If anyone thinks superdrol or tren extreme is any different then anadrol or d- bol then they are foolin them selves. I tried superdrol for 4 weeks and gained 17lbs adding 40 to my raw bench.It would take alot of testosterone to put 40 lbs on my bench in a month. I see it all the time. Guys using these new designer"legal" drugs and then convincing themselves it's ok to lift amatuer or drug tested. I would have more respect for the guy who uses whatever he wants , but competes in the non-tested meets. Whether your for it or against it drugs have been part of strength sports since the 50's.

because steroids were legal when bill kaz lifted. steroids were legal without a perscription until the Steroid Contol Act of 1991. So Kaz was doing nothing wrong when he competed.

hell, there's sure alot of bitching going on. Kaz was (and probably still is) a great strength athlete. He has his opinion and i can see where he's coming from. But i will never lift raw (also won't wear a triple ply, canvas or denim anything), my shoulders are wearing fast and i have a bad pec, i just can't go balls out off the chest, i have to have alittle support.

He's dam right. These 1,000 pound shirted bench presses are a joke. Right after watching one of those videos for the first time I found out the bench shirt is adding 300 pounds and I was pissed, its like being lied too. One of the things that makes it a joke is seeing lifters walking to the bench with his arms two feet away from the side of his body since they can't even lower them. On Shawn Lattimer's page after showing what his bench workout is it says "It is not uncommon for a person’s raw bench to decrease while on this program. One of the major benefits to this program is the fact that training regularly with the bench shirt greatly improves your comfort and ability in the shirt."

a big difference between d-bol, anadrol and superdrol.

dont fool yourself.

gear is not against the rules either.

byrd, it has nothing to do with when he competed.

he promotes a raw meet(which is a good thing).
then bashes gear. saying it is cheating.

so, gear is cheating. which is legal.
but, steroids are not cheating?

if one is cheating, shouldnt the other?
or if one is not, then neither are cheating.

how many of the huge raw benchers have torn pecs?

i would rather be a joke than someone who tears there pec and constantly gets injured.

if you dont like gear, dont lift in it.

i bet you guys want to still travel in horse and buggy?

i am sure the guys who raced cars in the 50s would rather race the cars they have on the tracks now. dont you think?