METAL & APT Pay IPF Fees

i thought that metal already paid but the ipf was dragging out the approval process for some reason

It's great that APT and Metal want to have their equipment approved, but I think that paying the IPF the $15g is stupid. People and companies need to take a stand.

This is great news but something has to be done long term to assure that the gear we buy with hard earned dollars doesn't have to get tossed in an old gym bag.......

How much will they want next time , $20K ?

How much will they demand next year? And the next?

Goes to show how big the IPF is - it has it's haters but it's still THE fed to be in if you want credibility. This demonstrates how much the suppliers want and need to be part of it. I don't think any other fed could demand what they demand and still attract the same loyal following.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's robbery!

Anybody know if APT's Apex shirt will EVER be useable in the IPF?

Damn, that's a lot of wrist wraps to sell. WTF!!!

Putt Houston.... now with Ridiculous BCWW

Let's face it. If the companies weren't making money from having thier equipment used by IPF lifters, they wouldn't pay the fees as it wouldn't make sense. By paying the fee I think we can deduce that the companies involved are doing well financially.In many countries the IPF is the main sanction without the large amount of organizations that we see in the US. If your gear can't be used by IFF lifters you are shutting yourself out of an entire countries worth of powerlifters. I think the companies are doing well. The price of equipment has gone up dramatically in the last few years and so has the pattern of equipment use. Now, lifters own piles of suits shirts and wraps, not just one of each item. Gear is constantly being replaced, often just because the lifter feels they can get an advantage with a brand new set of wraps or a shirt. New shirts mean people are trying to figure out sizes and buying extra gear. They have also brought in deadlift suits, briefs, erector shirts and a host of accesories that can add up. Even the sale of Inzer and Titan t-shirts must bring in some money as everyone seems to own a few. Last time I looked they weren't free.

Let's not cry for the gear companies. Let's cry for the poor lifter who has to fork out a fortune to stay competitive in a sport that should come down to strength and technique, but often relies on gear manipulation and having the right equipment. No one is holding a gun to the companies heads to force them to pay. If the IPF gets greedy, the companies won't pay. The fact that they did pay means the fee is still realistic. It's called what the market will bear.

This might be a stupid question... why are the fees are required? What does it cost the IPF to license equipment?

It doesn't necessarily cost a great deal to license the equipment (I assume), but then, what does it cost the NFL to paint company logos on the field?
In any case, I'd assume that the increase is to address IPF's 'limited financial strength' per the Strategic Plan posted on the IPF web site.

Ken Gack 'the Ripper'

My compliments to both Steve Campbell and phreak for excellent posts. Folks, this is America, a country founded on the capitalistic concept of allowing the market to seek its own level. It's the responsibility of all commercial entities, the IPF included, to enhance their equity. If the public/companies find this unacceptable, they've merely to conduct their business elsewhere. Obviously, both APT and Metal decided it would be to their advantage to pay the increased fees.

Bob Engleman

it's amazing to see people so willing to sympathize with companies who sell them a few square feet of fabric that won't even last more than a few meets for a couple hundred dollars.

I for one, am glad that I no longer need to buy a new singlet and wrist wraps to lift raw. College student, ya know? ;)
$200 dollar entry fees are bad enough for me.

Credibility? Here in America, the USAPL is like Pepsi. Lots of people love it. Lots of people do not care for it. But there are are many other choices available. It's all pretty much the same deal with minor variations. Any distinction in terms of better or worse is solely in the eye of the beholder. The issue outside the US as I understand it is not that the IPF is the best game in town. Rather it is the only viable game in town. Sure, WPC affiliates, GPC affiliates exist in other countries. But the sport is much more tied up with the IPF affiliates in those places. The IPF has a near monopoly in those places and as such can throw around its weight.

Perhaps someone from outside the US can chime in or correct me if I am mistaken in my appraisal of the lifitng scene overseas - but I thought that it was monopoly coercion- not a heartfelt interest in the underwriting of a "credible" federation that made Ricky and Ano write that check.

By the way- Vienna hotdogs- served with relish, mustard, pickle, peppers, and celery salt- are better then Oscar Meyer wieners. Nuff said!

The IPF had the Sopranos behind them ! I don't expect this one to make it either.

Lets see how this all shakes out when we get a price increase. Thanks IPF!

Remember the IPF is a non for profit, theyget donations not fee's and these donations are tax deducible.

to Hot Dog Man:

things are a bit different up here in canada. the cpu (ipf) is in every province. if i wanted to lift in a different federation then i'd have to fly half way across canada or drive 12 hours into the USA.

secondly, the cpu boycotts many lifters who consider lifting in other federations. many have been threatened with permanent bans and a handful of individuals have actually been banned because they chose to lift in a different federation.

the cpu increases its fees every year and treats its lifters badly but what are we going to do? i don't have the resources to travel across a country and if i did then i would be banned and would have no place to lift.

You sure? A true donation inder IRC Sec. 170 is tax deductible provided that all these five elements are there:(1) a transfer of (2) money or property (3) to a permissible donee (4) that is both voluntary and without receipt of economic consideration or benefit and (5) that is in the proper form.

The fourth condition may render some or all of the amounts paid to the IPF non-deductible- i.e. that the no value was received in tunr for the "gift". See Reg. Sec. 1.170A(h)(1), Werbianskij vs. Comm., Horne vs. Comm., and Winters v. Comm. The fees to the IPF are are paid in connection with a quid pro quo. Unless you can establish a fair value of the licensing fee at something less than $15,000, than the whole thing is presumatively a licensing fee.

I'm just relieved that the federation officials can stay in luxury suites near the venues now.

Hey, if all 4 companies paid the required fees then the net profits justified their doing so. That means that everyone is making money............except for the lifters.

For the competitors who are posting that winning lifters should get paid; sign up for cash n' prize paying shows (hey, we've got a great one coming up on April 10th!)

For the competitors who are unhappy with the prices or possibility of higher prices on suits and shirts; ya don't need them to powerlift! Woo hoo! You're free of that financial burden! Just buy a singlet, some wraps (I like APT) a belt and some chalk and talc and you're ready to be competitive (and in the pro division too!)

Stay Strong,
Sean
HardcorePowerlifting.com

Meet directors pay for the federation officals hotel accomodations. IPF reimburses officials for the cheapest coach air travel.

I lift in the USAPL, but I did remember someone making a valid point. The IPF is NOT a omnipotent entity, it exists BECAUSE of the lifters, it does not exist INDEPENDENT OF them. If this fee thing gets too crazy, lifters have the right and the ability to take their business elsewhere. Just something to consider.

Capitalism works well only when they is a sense of accountability and morality in the people. Without this, capitalism turns into monopolies and extortion. This is what the IPF is doing. In the USPF days there was none of this. What the IPF is doing (they are not American, folks) is squashing capitalism by driving out small businesses with fresh products and ideas, and leaving us with a limited selection of stale products and high prices. I could see approving suits and shirts to keep an even playing field. Telling us what wraps, belts, and shoes to wear is way out of line. What is next, IPF approved underwear? Thank God that in the USA we can go somewhere else. Hopefully people will do this so the smaller companies that cannot afford the IPF extortion can continue to operate.

What if none of the gear makers mentioned here paid the fee and no other gear maker paid the fee? Would the IPF allow all or any type of gear to be used? Would it go raw?

Just because some folks have issues with the IPF does not make them 'haters'. The IPF suits a useful purpose just as other feds do. They have many fine lifters just as other feds do. The IPF has many good points and some bad points just as other feds do.

IMO the fact that the suppliers paid this fee is not a testimony to how 'credible' the IPF is. It was a business decision nothing else. The IPF has a lot of lifters and they do not want to miss out on the business. It is as simple as that.

How one can ascertain that a business decision by suppliers equates to "it's still THE fed to be in if you want credibility" is quite a leap. I mean geeze by that logic just think how credible the IPF will be when they raise the fees to 20K (maybe next year).

The sad part is that even those of us that do not lift in the IPF most likely will face higher prices to pay for this fee increase placed on the suppliers.

All of the analogies to professional sports such as the NFL, the NBA, etc, are nonsense.
Those are professional sports in every respect, including the player's salaries, which command millions per annum.
Does anyone seriously think that tony Roma or any other player pays for his own equipment?

When the IPF arranges for my lifters to start making millions for lifting, rather than us paying major dough just to lift, then they can earn that privilege. - Until then its more akin to robbery.

My lifters have been in many IPF championships, and they aren't worth more than any other domestic meet - other than bragging rights.

Here is the flaw in much of the reasoning thus far. Any criticism of the IPF's fees can only be addressed objectively with a complete picture.

The cost of the equipment has been climbing since it was first introduced. If you do not look at both the profitability of the equipment manufacturers and the customer base, represented by the members of the IPF and its affiliates, all your conclusions will be in error.

A correct analysis, critique if you will, of the IPF increasing its fees must recognize whether an equipment manufacturer is running a profitable business, revenue and profit per unit sold for particular equipment and the potential profit/loss based on the average percentage of members of the IPF, and its affiliates, which can be expected to purchase said piece of equipment with some regularity. If the potential profit exceeds the fee than the fee should be paid. If the analysis is not done by the company before choosing to pay, or not pay, the fee, then the company is already heading towards failure because it is not correctly evaluating its business expenditures.

I would contend that the lifter has been paying the cost for many years of companies, both the IPF and its affiliate, for instance, and the equipment manufacturers, without viewing the complete picture. We bear the cost of the profitability of each.

We must, therefore, make the choices which reflect our individual values, not a half cocked theory of what party is behaving unfairly towards the other. When viewed correctly it becomes evident that a company pays such a fee exactly when not doing so would result in a loss of profit, and only then. Translation, the companies which paid the fee are making money off of your purchase of their equipment. Plain and simple. They are both taking your money.

Where you spend your money is where you place your priorities. However, the opinions you present are colored by your bias. Dollars have no bias. Show me what you bought and I'll tell you what matters to you.

Capitalism is about competition. Nothing is more American than the automobile but check the list of defunct American auto manufacturers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_United_States_automobile_manufacturers

Unfortunately 100s that couldn't keep up went out of business. Are you saying the folks who paid the license fee have "a limited selection of stale products and high prices?"

Almost every competitive sport from Archery to Yachting (almost A to Z)dictates what gear may be used in sanctioned competition especially if it enhances performance.

We side with companies who actually have carried the sport since its start.I could easily ask the same question.Why side with a fed that is using Obama strong arm tactics to rob the very companies that have supported the sport for years and years.

Capitalism is about competition.

True, when it is about the quality of the product and the business ability of the company, not the ability to pay excessive fees to governing bodies. When powerful people feel they can drive out competition by bribes and extortion, capitalism fails.

Nothing is more American than the automobile but check the list of defunct American auto manufacturers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_United_States_automobile_manufacturers

Unfortunately 100s that couldn't keep up went out of business. Are you saying the folks who paid the license fee have "a limited selection of stale products and high prices?"

The auto manufacturers did not go out of business because they had to pay huge fees to some governing authority. They could not build a competitive product and/or market effectively. Back then, there was even little regulation. Now we have our government doing the extortion thru excessive regulations and bailouts.

As far as stale overpriced products, many people feel that way. When there are only a couple of suppliers, innovation is less an incentive. I can come up with gear that is equivalent in performance, but lasts for years, and is price competitive, but I can not survive because the stranglehold that the IPF has on powerlifting. Again, be thankful that in the USA that we have other choices.

Almost every competitive sport from Archery to Yachting (almost A to Z)dictates what gear may be used in sanctioned competition especially if it enhances performance.

Just because they do it, does not mean it is okay. I do agree some with supportive gear, the manufacturer should be paying a reasonable approval cost fee to cover the time to have their products checked out. You must be one of those relative morality types. Soon it will be cool to kill Christians. Powerlifting is a little sport in which the competitors, not big corporate sponsers, get to pay as competition dwindles and the suppliers pass down costs. The IPF could take that in account.

I hope this high approval fee does not start hurting the distributors (when they get charged higher fees). Most of them are small businesses. I hope the USAPL will allow more flexibility for the little guys by allowing more flexibility of non IPF approved gear use in state level and below meets (like they do with ER racks).

I can see why you signed in as anonymous.

This is what I posted too but it was DELETED!!!

.... And what about the small companies like Crain? The IPF forced Crain out with excusionary pricing. Would that be basis for a lawsuit? It denies small companies from developing market share.

What price increase???????
8 years ago an Inzer EHPHD shirt cost 100£
Today a Titan F6 is the same price - and for a far superior product with more durability.

Compare powerlifting gear prices to other sports. It's cheap to do powerlifting in comparison to hockey, golf, bmx, snow boarding, biking, etc. The powerlifting companies have done a good job of delivering highly specialized products for inexpensive prices. All this and still pay the IPF's ridiculously high "fees".

Its complete bullshit. Powerlifting gear suppliers are not rolling in Escalades on twenty-twos. Creditability is relative to those who deem anything to be. I dont think IPF holds the moral standard in powerlifting, I think they are just like every other federation.

Actually, I think one of the closest parallels to the powerlifting gear approval process might be in swimming, where FINA, the international governing body, has created hell the past couple years in setting standards for what swimsuits are approved for use. Here's a link to one report that gives some of the highlights of the ongoing saga: http://www.swimnews.com/news/view/7430

IPF is sort of positioned to become the de facto governing body of world powerlifting in the event it becomes accepted as an Olympic sport. Any companies who are currently paying the required approval fees might consider it an investment in the future as much as in the immediate present.

Powerlifting will never be as huge as swimming in terms of numbers of participants and dollars spent or earned by manufacturers. However, on a smaller scale many of the same considerations will apply in the approval of gear intended to enhance performance. Requiring a fee is only one aspect of it. At some point there may be of necessity even more stringent regulation of materials used, construction of gear, etc. (And, of course, if it becomes an Olympic sport, powerlifting will likely be one in which all participants would be tested. That's another battle for another day, I suppose.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmSCh5ZkMqk

I doubt that!!!!!

Regina

It's really pretty simple. John, Pete and Alan just need to get together and decide what they are willing to pay the IPF. If the IPF doesn't agree then no gear will be used. Who loses then? This only works if they all agree of course. But if they decide nothing then nothing it is... The entire IPF would simly go Raw the the other lifters would go elsewhere to lift if they want to use gear. So I ask you who has the power.

Excellent post!

lets see, after the big brands decide to pay nothing, a smaller brand will just jump in and pay the full fee, a small price to become the sole producer of IPF legal gear.

EXCELLENT POST!!!

Sure, and if your Aunt was a man, she'd be your Uncle!

LOL... I kind of like that idea

Question that needs to be asked:
If the feds such as the USPF & WADBL go by IPF requirements for their suits, and the IPF say a suit that was legal the year before will no longer be legal because of lisc. fees (no changes in the suit design), will the USPF and WADBL still honor the suits as being legal in their federations. (Since they do not receive any of the lisc. money that the IPF is requiring.)
THANKS