IPF to Ban METAL, APT & Crain Products

this is a load of horse crap!

does this mean all records set using metal or apt gear will be erased?

All complaints should be directed towards the manufacturers? How bout directing them towards the greedy thieves at the IPF?

APT Pro Gear
Monster Energy

How did the IPF come about to $13,000 for its licensing fee? That seems really high for a sport as small and as fractured as ours is.

talk about greedy.
you idiots at the IPF (international purchase fees) have lost youre greedy minds .
some lifters are sponsored by these companies
that help pay there way which you DONT!!!!
so keep up the good work and byby IPF.
whats next only fruit of the loom underwear?

I lift IPF and have to say, while I understand their position from a business perspective (although I personally don't like it), this hurts us lifters most. I love APT products and I really don't want to purchase new stuff from another company in order to compete just because of an issue with licensing fees.

The sport is making money. Look at the membership fee's paid and nothing in return. Lifters still pay heavy entry fee's at every meet. When was the last time you passed a business building that had true office space for WABDL,IPA,SPF,RUM,APF,USPF,etc,HEADQUATERS. They are all making money.

the IPF sucks. May they burn in hell. What a load of crap.

Ryan Rigdon

As soon as we all realize that the lifters are what make this sport what it is, things that this won't happen. The IPF believes that they are "it". Take one of the majority of its lifters lifting in another federation, and the IPF will be begging and pleading for people and companies to come back. This is a consumer's market. We own them, not the other way around. Sometimes big company's just need to be shown there at the whim of their consumer base.

This is sad and bad for the sport over all.

Sponsored by APT, House of Pain, Jenkins Chiropractic, BMF Sports & Titan

Yet another reason to hate the IPF.

Anyone remember that Homer Simpson episode where he said "it is good to hate the French?"

Okay, that was meant to be funny - this is not.

proud to be sponsored by Lifting Large

Does the USAPL automatically have to follow suit with its local meets? This is really annoying.

I could see banning something b/c it violates the rules or is bad for the lifters...but banning something b/c the manufacturer won't agree to being extorted?? Geesh.

As a lifter there is an easy way to show your disapproval, simply join another federation. There are lots of feds and most of them are not as uptight about equipment as the IPF. Lifters make huge investments in their gear. They should be able to use whatever gear suits them best, unless there is a technical reason such as numbers of plies or types of material. I think the more a federation controls its lifters, the more they limit their potential.

If IPF were smart, they'd manufacture and sell their own "Official IPF" line of gear, and require all IPF lifters to buy and wear it.

I will not take it up with the manufacturers. The manufacturers did not set licensing fees at $13000 USD per year. The IPF did. I like my USAPL friends and our state chair, Rick Fowler is the greatest. But I will not support the IPF. I will vote with the few $ I have in my pocket. The IPF can take its "ball" and "go home." They're not the only game in town.

Great, now lifters will have to reinvest about $500 in their gear.

Now lifters will have less options as to whom they can be sponsored and their development as pros... Great.

METAL has offered money for IPF, but they are not yet able to give as written contract concerning the co-operating. Is the IPF so rich, that they do not want money for the contract or are they going to cheat??

Stupid, just plain stupid..

The IPF are screwing over lifters, and in the process screwing themselves. Metal and APT will have NO problem surviving as manufacturers without the IPF.

This is great news. Hopefully IPF will raise the taxes much more next year so that Titan and Inzer also refuses to pay the fee. When this happens everyone has to lift raw whether they want to or not (if lifting under IPF).

Would they seriously turn down my APT wrist wraps and Metal singlet at equipment check if this goes through?

Good material right here...

Do gear producers really expect us lifters to keep spend money on their products without them paying back money to our federation?

I think it's about time IPF start to get tough on the manufacturers.

All the manufacturers are doing is produce harder and tighter gear, forcing any lifter who want to stay competitive to keep buying new shirts, suits and wraps.

It's ridiculous.

Thankfully, the raw lifting has effectively put the material development on hold.

The money these companies invest in the IPF
is obviously not worth the price. Metal and APT
design great gear for a broader market than the
just the USAPL/IPF.

I think the IPF has sold out to the mighty dollar...

It has nothing to do with the gear companys. All their are doing is offering better equipment to make ourselves better. Their not saying, if you buy from us, you have to buy our triple ply super duper shirt. Their simply offering something better. Now you take the ipf and their saying that if you have and use this equipment that you can't lift with them. Their forcing the hands of their lifters who, by their previous guidelines purchased legal gear, to either give up the federation or go out and restock the majority of their gear. The gear company's are offering a choice, the IPF is offering an ultimadum.

keep it up they will all have to be raw LOL

I dont know why this bothers me but I keep coming here to comment.

What is next?
Charge me to wear a certain type of shoe,tee shirt, singlet?

Ha!

The IPF is a non-for-profit organization. All these fees should be a tax write off. I would check it out!

I posted my thoughts on the Unofficial USAPL forums:

What I get from this quote is that any complaints should go to the manufacturers so that hopefully it pushes them to bow to the IPF's licensing demands. If that does happen it hurts both us and these good small companies. Costs for us will go up and sales will go down for these companies. This would cause less competition in an already small field for powerlifting gear causing prices to go up and innovation/quality to go down.

Where does this money go? I hate to see the small companies get pushed out like this. I can't believe they couldn't work out another arrangement that would have been fair to everyone involved. Is the IPF the new IOC?

It's time to look at changing the structure of how the organization gets funded. The RAW movement could very well make it unlikely that any company would be willing to pay the high licensing fee.

This does not portray the generally good spirit of the powerlifting community which I've come to know as both generous and sharing. Granted, the organization needs to be funded but I doubt price gouging is the way of going at it. Too lazy to think of a better alternative where the IPF, the lifters, AND the companies all win? Thinking like that will leave them in the end with just the IPF to worry about. The others will be gone.

It's bad enough that many lifters will be faced with a choice of buying additional gear for upcoming meets.

But what's worse is a lifter now buying additional gear from an "approved" manufacturer and then wondering how long it will be "approved". Even the entry fees are a stretch for some people, so I imagine the burden of buying new equipment is going to really hit some lifters hard.

the gear is still approved until June....

only the equipment e.g. bench, rack etc are valid until next week.

reminds me of the ASA banning softball bats to a certain extent. First the Ultra's, then the +'s, then the Freaks/ synergy 2s, Now they have it so if your bat shows excessive wear, its illegal. All in a matter of years. 300 bucks a pop for bats. Fat guys and Dirtbags united and moved to USSSA.

This very reasoning by the IPF is also the very same reason why more and more lifters are doing unsanctioned and lesser well known meets. The IPF does not have a strangle hold on "this meet is the shit" events as it once did. Doing what the IPF is doing, even though, to some extent, I understand, is only going to guarantee that our sport stays fractured and it lends credence to those that add seemingly hundreds of feds a years to circumvent "IPF's self validity".

Peace

Stupid beyonf belief - there is no raw lifting in the IPF.

Hahahaha all these raw lifting zealots make me laugh - There is no raw lifting in the IPF

That was what he was saying, that he hoped the fee for getting suits approved got so high that no suits would be approved, and thus everybody would have to lift sans equipment.

Proudly sponsored by Titan Support Systems Inc.

There's your wonderful, wholesome IPF you all cherish. Kind of like the Mafia. You pay us extortion (protection) fee or we 'kill you'! They really care about the lifters huh! Screw ya'll! Go buy new equipment is what they are telling you. And make sure it's from a company that paid our extortion fee!

A few years ago the fee was 3000 Euro (per item to approve), then in 2008 they raised it to 4500 Euro (that's a 50% increase). And late last year they raised it again to 9000 Euro (that's a 100% increase).

Rickey Crain thought it was way out of line to raise the fee 100% per item so he didn't want to pay anymore.

What's stupid is this hurts the average lifter. From a standpoint, Titan and Inzer probably make up the largest majority of single ply gear in the USAPL (you see some Metal DL suits), but ALOT of people have realized that APT wraps are the best on the market and affordable at best. Many new lifters bought belts and wraps from APT and many wear the all black wraps. Alot of younger lifters can't afford to fork over more money for simple equipment. Just plain stupid.

Can we just tear logos off of the APT belts?

no they're not "lifter friendly". they won't let you put things down your shirt, and they won't pass any lift so long as you don't get stuck in the down position. but that's the way a real federation behaves.

what legitimate sanctioning body worries about kowtowing to competitors and manufacturers? only powerlifting could produce all this bellyaching and hand wringing over a routine licensing decision. real sanctioning bodies need you less than you need them, and that's how the ipf (correctly) views itself.

Why couldn't they have given lifters at least an indication of this (a few months). Many lifters are preparing for spring meets who may have thrown down 100 bucks for apt wraps and belts and now they're "useless". Why buy any equipment, for all we know Titan and Inzer might refuse since the IPF might say , pay us 25 grand next year.

This is an idiotic statement! "what body worries about its competitors and manufacturers"...Well hopefully all of them!! we make up that body! without the lifters and the gear they are nothing.

Here's the business math as I see it.

4 companies were paying $6,500 each to have their lines approved for use in the IPF.

The IPF doubled their annual fee.

Two of the brands couldn't or didn't pay the fee but the other two did.

Now there's 2 companies paying $13,000 each to have their lines approved for use in the IPF.

If the lifters accept this forced action and switch to Titan and Inzer, then those two lines' sales increase, their net profits increase, the IPF still makes its money off lifter cards and sign up fees and they're still getting their $26,000.

Plus, the top 2 selling brands in that federation become stronger than ever and that insures that their business' success is more connected than ever to the IPF (sponsor sales security.)

The only problem the IPF might face is if lifters boycott that federation because they can't wear/use their Metal, APT or Crain's products. Otherwise, it's a money maker for that federation (I don't think they care about whether or not it's a cool move to make, even if they should.)

Stay Strong,
Sean
HardcorePowerlifting.com

That's right; however, what happens if they try to charge them even more money. As long as IPF is geared and their company makes a good percentage of their profit from this population of lifters, the IPF will keep bumping their prices up. What happens when there's no actual bar or plate companies that want to get their money taken?

more political bs and this sport is small (UNBELIEVABLE)

Posted on this forum in September http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/12407

I am going to play "Devil's advocate"

1. How many USA lifters compete in the IPF? I would guess a very small percentage compared to the total USA lifters. Lifters must win the usapl national championship to go to the IPF. I don't think the banning of certain gear will have any major affect in the USA. The gear companies that didn't pay the fee, they should market more towards USA lifters, non-IPF affiliate countries (WPC, GPA, GPC, WDFPF, WPF, WUAP,etc.) and 30-50 other USA federations.

2. Supply & demand!. The gear companies that pay the fee want a piece of the IPF market. The IPF is comprised of member federations from over 100 countries located on six continents. USAPL is the largest USA federation and is the USA representative to the IPF. The IPF is also responsible for coordinating powerlifting's participation in the World Games. So, the IPF know they can charge a large fee because it has a large international market to offer to companies.

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says nothing about metal or apt.

So, the IPF know they can charge a large fee because it has a large international market to offer to companies.

None of that makes it right J.T.
Just because they "can" doesnt mean anything at all.
IMO, the IPF has always been pretty corrupt, even way back in the USPF days.

The USAPL has over 4,000 active members in the USA. That's NOT a "very small percentage of American competitors." If I'm reading this news item correctly, Metal and APT are also banned from the USAPL because their one of the IPF's affiliates.

That was what he was saying, that he hoped the fee for getting suits approved got so high that no suits would be approved, and thus everybody would have to lift sans equipment.

And my point was that such lifting is not sanctioned by the IPF at all.

Well, I'm not going to say if it's a bad move or good move. All I can say is that I'm glad I only use Titan gear anyway and Ken Anderson makes top notch equipment.

You hit it on the head. This isn't to stuff their pockets from the license fees. It's to force out the little guys. You can probably put it together from there that there was some under the table deals going on. Only way for this move to make sense for the IPF is if the two companies paying the fees were offering further kickbacks from the increases. Win-win for those companies and the IPF. Lose-lose for us lifters and the good, small companies being forced out.

Powerlifting watch list around 33 different USA federations and 5 USA High School federations. I would say that would make USAPL membership a small percentage compared to the total USA federations. Then, if you think about how many USA lifters actually compete in the IPF compared to the total USA lifters, the percentage is even smaller. So, the banning of equipment by the IPF isn't going to affect a lot of USA lifters! It will mainly affect the International powerlifting community.

TRAIN HARD
"BIG WILLIE" J.T. HALL
BENCH PRESS VIDEOS
INZER ADVANCE DESIGNS
BMF SPORTS
USP LABS
ADRENALINE GEAR
QUEST NUTRITION ANA-PRO

If you compete in the USAPL you compete in the IPF. The IPF approved list is automatically adopted by the USAPL so if it's not approved in the IPF you can't use it in an USAPL meet. At least according to the lifter's handbook for the USAPL. So this does affect a large number of people. This is why it is an important issue.

How many total competing lifters do you think are in this country JT?

There's less than 20,000 active adults out of high school who currently have federation cards. So, the 4,000 USAPL members represent roughly 20% of the competitor sales market!

Granted, millions more "lift heavy" in the gym and aren't affected by any federation ruling, but this is a big money move within the sport's competing community.

To me the IPF needs to switch to a model adopted by the PGA. The PGA doesn't have a list of approved equipment based on a licensing. It's based on the performance of the equipment. The PGA gets its money elsewhere allowing any equipment maker to potentially get in the game.

Still, 4,000 members isn't anything to sneeze at J.T.
If I had a pool of 4,000 lifters, I do believe I could put together a kick ass team. - that now can't even wear the gear that they want unless Der Uber Furher says that they can.

Always nice to have the burden of choice removed from the lifters who foot all of the bills.

As far as what lifters it will affect in the USA you are correct.
It will not affect a lot of lifters, now will it?
only the very best

proud to be sponsored by Lifting Large

In the PGA that means they can't use the balls that have better aerodynamics and fly farther or enhanced drivers that impart more energy to the ball. Doing what you suggest could mean elimination of the recent generation of super strong/stiff fabrics in shirts and suits and super strong/springy wraps.

Correct, that is what I'm saying. They may be interested in doing that. I don't mind the tech advances so don't care if that gets adopted or not. I just want to see the license equipment piece go away.

So while the world is in a recession and small companies are in dire straights the IPF doubles their fees! You can't be serious. The only reason to do this is to force the smaller companies out of business. I think Sean is 100% correct on this one.

They already do...I used to squat in work boots...can't do that anymore. Has to be athletic shoes.

I don't see myself ever lifting at an IPF World competition. As has already been noted, it affects me because I lift in USAPL sanctioned meets (or did until now). I hold memberships in 3 feds because I have friends in each of those feds. I will continue to compete, but I will not lift in the USAPL after June 30. Now the USAPL may not need my membership (I mean how significant is 1/4000th of your membership), but I agree that if say 400 members choose to lift in one of the other organizations (for one year), it might be sufficient to put the USAPL on notice that it needs to stand up to the IPF on this issue. I have purchased equipment from APT, Crain's, and Titan. I like their stuff and have nothing against Metal or Inzer. But American lifters represent the a large segment of the limited market of powerlifting equipment market (numerically and financially), so I think that a concerted effort on the part of the individual lifters might make a difference.

Okay, now's the time for USAPL lifters who object to this shake down to form the USAPL II and IPF II federations. Our by-laws will provide protection for any lifter who purchased Metal, Crain or APT gear prior to 1 March 2010. All you have to do is produce your receipts at the weigh in or equipment check. In situations where the athlete has no proof of purchase, the USAPL II will have a polygrapher standing by. In the event that the polygrapher is unavailable a federation official authorized to administer oaths will take a sworn statement from the competitor.
I wonder if Monty Python could do something with this?

LADIES,LADIES,LADIES...calm down its not that serious...lmao

I live in a country that has 200 registered lifters and only one federation. guess which one. IPF. I just brought 2 metal deadlifters, 1 to train in the other to compete in. Had to buy it from overseas, $200 a piece. As from the middle of my lifting season I can't wear them. What a waste of my money. THANKS IPF. How do I claim my wasted money back from you. I am not sponsored or anything. This came out of my pocket.

in fact it is 100% legal to lift without equipment ("raw") at all IPF meets, including the Open Worlds.

They sure do...doing a USAPL meet tomorrow actually. Your singlet can be just about any brand, and so can your shoes, but your t-shirt either has to be a solid color, or a USAPL t-shirt. Kind of f***ed up. It's really a choices thing around this area (central texas). We have the USAPL and we have the APF, not really anything else.

But not all 4000 lifters compete in the IPF. I think that's what he's getting at.

And if the lifters continue to lift in the IPF, the IPF will continue to do this kind of crap. Don't lift in the IPF if you do not like it and force the IPF to listen to it's lifters.

I understand Big Jim, but this rule carries over to the USAPL too so it directly affects all 4,000+ lifters in that federation as well. Lifters lifting in state, regional and national USAPL meets won't be allowed to use Metal or APT products either.

It's almost the same as if the USAPL made this call themselves and the IPF followed their direction (same difference sales wise.)

Hey K, just lift raw and you wont have to worry about gear. Just keep training hard and you will be competitive, look at Konstantin.

Jeff Hackett.

I love the quality of lifts in the IPF but they come off as better-than-you royalty looking down at us groveling peasants. I hate their attitude and their actions and will never lift there unless they get to the Olympics (which means I will never lift there). I find the WPC more to my liking even though I am a raw lifter.

Jeff Hackett.

ULTIMATE SIZE, STRENGTH, AND STAMINA
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´great i than will stop lifting

As the only real competition in Australia is with IPF, the only protest I can do is to lift raw at nationals. Even though I've just bought a custom super centurion all my wraps are APT and my deadlift suits are all Metal.

A weekends notice that APT will be banned, an Metal suits banned a month before nationals?
Obviously no advocates for the lifters in the IPF

Telling us to blame Metal and APT is just outrageous, the fault is clearly with the extortionate IPF and I suspect Titan and Inzer colluding to try and drive their smaller competitors out.

THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL.SO THE MILLIONS THAT WE ALL MAKE, WE'LL JUST GO OUT AND BUY NEW GEAR.KEEP ALL THIS BS BANNING CRAP UP AND YOU'LL BANNED YOURSELF RIGHT OUT OF AN EXISTING FEDERATION. COULD SOMEONE SHOW ME WHERE THE CLOWNS AND THE ELEPHANTS ARE BECAUSE THIS IS ONE BIG CIRCUS.

The IPF has become (albeit to itself) a giant in the sport and thus representative of nothing more than a Micro$oft of Powerlifting.

This move equates to nothing more than a monopoly with a deliberate action. The IFP needs to be sued - even if it does nothing more than empty their pot as they are obviously concerned solely about their financial revenues.

In economics, a monopoly (from Greek monos / μονος (alone or single) + polein / πωλειν (to sell)) exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.

If a firm has a dominant position, then there is "a special responsibility not to allow its conduct to impair competition on the common market".

Other than that, just lift.

Great, just great, i compete in the IPF and i just got myself some APT strangulators which were legal, great, what a load of crap....

Correct me if I'm wrong, asmany will do but, isn't the IPF the ONLY fed that the IOC recognizes ? And as such, isn't the IPF taking a "it's my way or the highway" stance ?

At some point, at least in the United States, the IPF fees are going to violate federal and state antitrust laws, if they don't already.

The IPF is a dictatorship!

Look at the track record..If Ano was to call the IPF EC and offer them a cash payout indivdually then this wouldn't be an issue..

Look at the change to WADA testing same thing!!!!

Forcing the Canadian Powerlifting Union(among other nations) to use WADA because of some Olympic pipe dream.The tests are making OCT almost impossible here in the CPU and thats the only way to truly attack the lifter who cheats:O)

Metal won't be banned from IPF...

What a selfish move on behalf of such a powerful powerlifting organization. Barely joined the USAPL 2 months ago so I could compete with my University lifting team and now that Nationals are in April I have to go out and get used to new wraps. I've had APT wraps for over a year and they're awesome. Now that they are banned in February I need to buy crappy ass Inzer wraps which feel like pillows hugging my knees opposed to my Convicts. How fawking awesome.

Your analogy would have made sense about 8 years ago. The thing is with Microsoft is that they have to deal with Google. Google is the only threat that is worth anything to Microsoft. Google has forced Microsoft to change its tactics to be more customer friendly and product better products. In terms of Powerlifting we don't have a Google to square off against the IPF/Microsoft. We have a bunch of worthless companies that are like Texas Instruments back in the day, maybe a Sun Microsystems or two. But nothing like Microsoft.

So the IPF can do what it wants, because no one can really put up a challenge. If the double ply world stop splintering, and the non IPF single ply drug tested fed would stop being watered down division happy feds then maybe the IPF would stop acting this way. Only thing the USAPL lifters can do other then leave.. is go raw. Which is already happening in droves.

Screw the IPF. Never liked them, never will.

Lots of other sports have annual fees for equipment approval. Examples:

After the $3000 (plus tax) initial test fee, there is a 13,000 fee per year per basketball for men. Lower fees for women and kids, lower also for cheaper rubber vs leather.

http://www.fiba.com/downloads/v3_abouFiba/prog/equipment/Requirements_Basketballs.pdf?v2

similar discussion about goalie masks for hockey.
http://www.goaliestore.com/board/equipment-forum/54879-warwick-no-longer-hecc-approved.html

Tennis has a $3400 testing fee per model of ball
http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_43379_original.PDF

We seem to want it both ways - an anything goes free for all - just lift the most weight and a respected professional sport that some could earn a living at. The respected professional sports all have some bureaucracy, rulemaking bodies and financial overhead that all need to be paid for.

I don't begrudge the IPF from having licensing fees, but a) $13000 per year and b) if you don't pay, you're screwed...not a way to make friends and influence people. I don't know what language is spoken at the IPF HQ, but apparently they don't understand "worst economic climate in 80 years"

To me this seems like bad management on the part of the IPF. So they want big money from licenses-the fees are one issue, but how about considering the lifters here? No communication that I know of aside from an update on the IPF website less than a week before the APT stuff expires. There has to be a better way of doing things. This has and will continue to severely effect lifters.