Westside Releases Statement Regarding Hoff Incident

im sorry but that is ridicullous there was clearly something under there and if there wasnt how could it be legal or much more BS is powerlifting coming that you cant even touch your chest or belly or whatever that you have to bunch your shirt up an extra 8 inches.....such a joke.

Good enough for me.

Unless someone can prove the pic. and video is not doctored, he is right. ANyone can fix a video or pic. Answer this why is it only on one pic and maybe one video? Non of the other videos or pics show that.

Then why pay out another 500.00 to Wenning, and 1000.00 to Cartwright?

If someone has their car stolen from a busy parking lot but nobody in that parking lot sees it happen, does that mean it didn't happen? No, it means the cops look for video evidence. It's a technique that's proven fairly effective over the decades.

If there really was nothing under Hoff's shirt, why doesn't Louie just explain to all the geeks out there what caused the appearance of a 6" foam tube? A plausible explanation would probably satisfy all the geeks and send them scrambling back into their parents' basements.

I thought Hoff would've spoken up by now. Most people I know would put up a pretty good fight if they were unjustly being accused of cheating. His silence has been somewhat deafening.

My sentiments exactly:)

and the saga continues

I would have rather seen a simple statement from Lou instead of a statement AND attack on those who have/had an issue with this situation. I would imagine not all of them are "Internet geeks".

The circus side-show continues...

What Louie says is good enough for me, too. Video can be manipulated, but it sure is tough to get a 2X4 stuffed in your shirt past the judges, referees, & fellow lifters! Isn't it strange when a representation of being there (video) is taken as more reliable than the experiences of all those people who were actually there?

its on more than one video. http://www.ironscene.com/play_hd.php?vid=3052

I don't know Louie, seems a little late to retract what you've already done (i.e., remove his standing and award Wenning and Cartwright). Your own guy posted the video...you saying your own guy edited it?. The picture was a snapshot from the video.

Hoff should have spoken up immediately if this was bogus, so should have you. Many of us in powerlifting geek land are educated.

I found that video of Dave Hoff of his 810 Bench Press at the 2009 SPF Pro Am.

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/3052_dave_hoff_810@275_benchpress_-_2009_spf_pro-am

I assume I have the correct video. I have watched it several times and even when he stands up after the lift and I can't see any "object" in his shirt.

Will Slade

I think he contradict himself because he agreed to the punishment said by Jesse Rogers a few days ago:

Staff wrote:

SPF President Jesse Rodgers has announced the federation's finding and penalty on what has been determined to be a case of cheating by Pro-Am competitor Dave Hoff.

Rodgers: "Sorry it has taken a little bit to get things worked out but after finally getting to see the video and talking with Louie and others involved, here are the decisions we have made so far on this situation:

1. David Hoff's numbers will not be excepted from the Pro Am. He has been disqualified.
2. He most return the money that he excepted.
3. Matt Wenning moves put to second place and WILL be paid.
4. David has been suspended from the Pro Am and any SPF meet for 1 year from 8/23/09
If he does not return the money he will be suspended until he does.
5. This is just a start and we will try our best to do what is right."

Why pay out $$ to Wenning and Cartwright if Dave is innocent????

Deny. Deny. Deny. I've seen this tactic used over the years and am reminded of a quote that many suspects in crimes adhere to. "If you're charged with stealing a church and the steeple is sticking out your ass, still DENY IT."

Anyway, this has made for some good reading.

There is clearly something under Hoff's shirt. Nice try! No, I am sorry but someone did not doctrine the video and picture up. Complete bullshit! If Hoff was not guilty Louie would of never paid Wenning and Cartwright.

i wonder if Jesse will cave in to Louies request to reinstate Hoff. Jesse should stand his ground if he doesn't want his fed to be a complete joke.

Okay I'll throw in my 2 cents for my first post on here...
Why the attack on the internet geeks Louie? I have (had) a massive amount of respect for you in the short 1 year I've been involved in this sport, but you're being rude to the wrong people. If you think this was handled wrong then you should talk to Jesse Rodgers the one you quoted as being the fairest gentleman you've met, not the people commenting on this because in your and your lifters positions you are going to get criticism all the time. We didn't retract his numbers or disqualify him, and obviously the evidence in the videos is pretty substantial. I personally support Jesse's decision because even if nothing was hidden under the shirt and it was just bunched up, that bar did not even come close to touching his chest the way it should.

And I also think Hoff should release a statement too.

As far as anonymous posts...my name is Dustin Phelps from Rolla, MO. My best lifts are 750/500/625, and I'll probably never go pro because it's hard to reach the numbers put up with half squats and such when you personally want to hit full range movements like the rules state. (no disrespect to people like AJ roberts,frey, and others who nailed their lifts)

Look at the shirt when he's laying down and as he leans forward to stand up. Its obvious something isn't right then. Once he's standing upright, you can't see it as clearly.

Its funny how this gets redirected to other peoples fault or hating from him. He is protecting his lifter. This is bullshit. I had three people text or call me from the meet after this lift was made and tell me the same thing....Dave Hoff had something under his shirt and none of the judges said a word! Louie is now making his own mockery of the sport he helped build. Now we even have idiots on here agreeing wiith him and saying its ok because Louie said so!? Man this is fucking nuts. No one doctered a video or picture. This really happened. And there was not millions os non lifting geeks who seen this or who are commenting on this. Most if not all are lifters. Lifters who are pissed off over this because are sport has enough black eyes and drama that we dont need more. Lifters who should now be pissed because Louie is trying to manipulate everyone into believing this was fake because this was his lifter. If Hoff did not lift at WSBB Louie would not defend this lifter like he is Hoff. Crazy!

Are you kidding me! I'm speechless. I will say this much. Louie just lost ALL respect I had for him. Not only did he deny what we all saw but he insults EVERYONE online. Does he not have an INTERNET business? this response is an insult to the sport and all of us who have supported him with our ONLINE orders. My message to Louie is this, it works both ways. This internet geek is DONE buying product from your INTERNET business.

Proudly sponsored by Titan Support Systems Inc.

WOW! After Jesse's statement yesterday, this is a big slap in Jesse's face. I've known Jesse a while and only met Louie a couple of time. Me and Jesse have had our problems in the past but I said earlier that I think Jesse (and I thought Louie) handled the situation correctly. I'm sticking with Jesse's statement from all of the evidence I've seen. I think Jesse handled it right. I sure wasn't expecting this type of statement from Louie. If it was just one pic or vid from just one source, I'd say give the benefit of the doubt. But it would be just too big of an effort and expense to collaberate with that many people to 'fix' that many pics and vids...and for what motive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDwSMveNMq4

I don't think he really cares for you anonymous "internet geeks"

So whine all you like, it appears he could care less what your opinion is.

Watch this video with this one at the same time:

http://www.ironscene.com/play_hd.php?vid=3052

You can see something on both.

I really wanted a copy of the Westside Bench Press book. Not getting it now.

are we sure this statement comes from Louie?
just asking because he's done so much for the sport.
this just seem weird, akward.

I'm sorry, but I am not going to agree just because he says so. Convince me with facts about what the apparent bulge is, not what you spent on the meet. The judges may the be best, but can still make mistakes.

If you have such a high regard for Hoff and believe he has not done anything wrong, he should keep the money. That Matt Wennings gave half his share to Bob Youngs is laudable, but not dispositive of the issue of whether or not Hoff cheated.

That would be awesome if Jon made this all up to get hits on this sight.

One of two things will happen with this.

1) Jesse Rogers will roll over and Louie will get his way. The SPF will continue being Louie's playground.

2) Jesse Rogers won't roll over. Louie won't keep putting up money for SPF meets and will find a new fed.

Overlook the shirt stuffing; his lockout was not even. The right arm locked out before the left. Very strong, but should not have been white lighted on that technical factor.

Why can't the judges just inspect the shirt, get him to put it on, then see if it has the bulge in it like the pictures show? If it was somehow "the bunching up of the material" then it would be there again when he puts it on again. Hoff should just let them inspect the shirt and settle this issue if he says that's all it was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDwSMveNMq4

Watch the video and take notice at the very end when he walks off. Some dude goes to pat him for congrats on the chest or stomach and he blocks it by turning away. Not only is there something obviously in his shirt but he makes a conscious effort to not allow someone to feel that area at all.

Take your lumps kid! You cheated and got away with it............ well, initially at least.

Please note that anonymous comments are being tightly moderated.

This is not your opportunity to slam Westside or the SPF on any number of issues that you may have with them.

Unbelievable.

Simmons will now forever be known in my household as Louie Obama, because he has no more integrity, any longer, than our Rockstar President.

I believe I may have a bonfire, tonight, and burn some of my old Westside tapes....

http://www.powerliftingtruthunedited.info

i did not have sexual relations with that woman...miss lewinsky!!!!!! oh yeah and the stuff about me in mr canseco's book is absolutely false!

bill clinton and rafael palmeiro

Not the same video that came out first. The first video had a side shot and it clearly showed something under his shirt when he layed down on the bench and arched. Put that video back up. That was the video that was removed by the lifter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDwSMveNMq4

Hi Jon, why not post the above video in question?

As a WPC referee I don't care who pays my way. If you break the rules and knowingly cheat you will be disqualified regardless of who brought me there to judge.

I wasn't there and won't make a judgment call at all. This is merely how I approach every meet at which I am a judge. Stay Strong, J.R. Bolger APF Executive Committee, AZ APF State Chairman, WPC Referee and all around nice guy

heres a newsflash... If you dont lift, have only been lifting for a year, havent been involved in the sport for very long, or post anonymously.... No one cares what you say, you dont deserve a say as you have no integrity and/or no room to speak on things you know nothing about.

I know thats hard for all you little queers with your sub par totals and huge sense of self importance, but thats just the way it is.

You know what sucks? I was there, front row, not more than 15 feet from the lifters. I did not see anything, I was at the head view, the picture that makes it look obvious is a shot from the other side. Why in the hell didn't I notice this? Something is not making sense. I just can't see Loie calling anyone "geeks" either. He has been respectful every time I had a phone conversation with him, and I read all of his articles, and he rarely, if ever, talks down on anyone. This whole thing just make me shake my head and makes me think I am in the twilight zone. What is going on?

Here is the original Video that came out first-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDwSMveNMq4

I never thought it would be like this. I am not choosing a side although I am still a huge Westside supporter. Although I think Louie was right when he judged the internet nerds. Because I just happened to notice that they were the first to jump and be insulted. For you people that say you're done buying from him, why? What did Louie do wrong? He told everyone what he thought and unless soemone has a lie detector, he was telling the truth as far as he knows it and as far as we know it. Louie still knows a lot about training and has created more World Record holders than many of us will ever meet. So why quit buying his products to make us stronger powerlifters? Just a thought. Unless you competed in the Pro-AM, NOBODY wants to hear your opinion, just like nobody wants to hear my own. Although I'll be the first to say congratulations to Hoff and the rest of the PRO competitors, especially big Chuck Vogelpohl and his WR squat of 1140 @ 242. I hope to see continuously growing numbers from all of you. When i joined powerlifting, it was about strength. Not fame. So even if Hoff isn't reinstated back into the SPF, if he is a TRUE POWERLIFTER, he'll continue to train in a hardcore dungeon gym, hitting huge numbers that the rest of us will never know. Good luck Dave Hoff, you have my support. As well as you do Louie.

So Dave Hoff embarrassed his gym, embarrassed the SPF, never had the guts to utter a single word about his situation, and now Louie Simmons releases a statement attacking everyone and demanding his money back? Jesse Rodgers took it COMPLETELY EASY on you Hoff, all you had to do was say "I'm sorry", not even anything elaborate, take your knock, and move on. So know everything hinges on Jesse Rodger's response to this, he can either bow down to Louie Simmons, which would embarrass the SPF more than anything else he could do, or he could stand up to Louie Simmons, which would then cause Louie to pull his support for the SPF and find another fed to go to, which then would damage Westside some more.

I've got to admit, I feel really bad for Jesse on this situation, he's faced with a job nobody wants, but Jesse, I pray you do the right thing and stand your ground. Losing Louie Simmons won't kill the SPF, it got along just fine without him, and it will continue to do just fine without him.

I watched it over and over and still can't tell for sure. How wouldn't the judges see this? He is such a strong dude, IF he did do this... why?

Why do people cheat? To win. thats why.

In the words of South Park officer Barbrady:

"Nothing to see here people, move along!"

Putt Houston.... now with Ridiculous BCWW

I agree, we were in the front row just off right, neither of us saw it either... I mean the pics make it look like it was plainly in sight, and it just wasn't that way.

New movie title:

THE THING...It came from underneath Hoffs bench-shirt to cause utter chaos and dismay.

We were maybe 5 rows back to the left of the platform. Couldn't see anything there either.

It's just funny to see how people were just tearing into Hoff for the last week, and now since Louie issues this statement everybody changes their tune!
"I wasn't there but I didn't see anything either!"

Then why are you so pi$$ed if you don't care...obviously someone cares if he got disqualified

it looks like louie is sacrificing himself in hope of - what?
hoff is just a lifter and a cheater at that. Louie is an icon.
i hope hoff solves this by coming out and claiming full responsibility.
regardless,

Just a thought, if it was a knee wrap (which it is rumored to have been)no one would have been able to clearly see it except from certain angles that are shown in that video and the pic floating around..

I agree with this. As an SPF lifter, it seriously pains me to see the federation I call home have to endure what is going on here. A ruling on Hoffs lifts at the Pro-Am was made by Jesse, as the SPF President. It was fast, it was fair, and it was to the point.

Now this statement comes out and once again the SPF is drug through the ringer. The members of this federation have worked very hard to make it a place where the lifters have fun doing what we all love to do.

Above all, I want to see Jesse stand his ground with this with the information as we know it now.

Jack Kottwitz DVM

Same here, we were in the second row and could not see anything that looked strange.

It is classic that people are getting touchy for Louie calling the internet geeks just what they are.

To say since no one saw it, it must not have happened is ignorant. Its very possible that it could happen.

The phenomenom is called inattentional blindess.

About 50% of the population will miss the obvious, even when its right in front of your nose.

click on this link and see what I'm talking about. Its a visual cognition lesson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahg6qcgoay4

Putt Houston.... now with Ridiculous BCWW

When Jesse released his decision about this incident, he stated that his decision was based partly on his discussion with Louie about what happened. I would think that if Louie's position was that it didn't happen, Jesse would not have decided the way he did.

Just to clarify, what I was getting at is that just because you were there in the audience doesn't mean you could say one way or the other what happened. It was very difficult to see.

Absolutely, same here. I can't say one way or the other what happened as I do not know.

one more video incase the others get deleted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hYW8VavY1I

Many of us who were there were concentrating more on the lock-out controversy. There was a lot of talk at the meet about "rack it" vs. "take it", which focused my attention on lock-out. From five rows back -- which was significantly far from the platform -- I know I wouldn't have been able to see anything unusual in his shirt. Just too far back with too many people in the way.

Even if there was something under his shirt you can't take the lift away if it wasn't caught on the platform. It's similar to taking a squat away from a lifter after seeing he was 1 inch high on a video 2 days after the meet. What the judges say goes unless it's caught at the meet. sorry guys. going to have to deal with it. It is what it is.....

Some of us do lift, some of us do judge and some of us do hold the sport to a higher standard than this complete adn utter mockery.

Its nice that you harrass others about their "sense of self importance", irony shouldnt stick that hard,

Visually inspected the lifters, what a joke. I was sitting in the front row, and just as that clip above clearly shows, Dave hid himself by being hunched over, and surrounded by his helpers. Hell, you can even see one of them adjust the bulge on his first lift.

PJ aint no IPF ref.

So now we have two cheaters. Hoff and his gym. Just cause you run the meet doesn't mean you should cheat. If anything you should be more strict on your own lifters. If you train at the gym that puts on the meet you can do whatever you want. Oh ya and everone on the Internet is a geek as I post this message on the Internet.

I was not at the meet. I did watch the video several times and viewed the still pictures. From that perspective I originally believed that there was something under Huff's shirt. Again I originally believed it. But I'm not so sure now. It just seems to me that with all the eyes on the lifter including the referees, no one saw anything at the time! The head referee even bends over to get as close as he can to watch the bar touch, AND HE SEES NOTHING THERE. If it was so obvious, how come a respected IPF referee did not see it? Is he going to throw away his reputation over something like this? Ken Wheeler who was a side judge stated he did not see anything! Is he going to sell himself down the river over a lifter cheating? I don't think so!

As far as Louie standing by his lifter under such uproar, demonstrates a lot of courage. Louie must know its a controversial stance. It would be easy to just throw the lifter under the bus and be done with it. But Louie has the courage to back his lifter when others are calling for his head! I have known Louie for over 25 years and no matter any of Louie's faults, I have never known him to be a lier. If Louie believes in his lifter, then it's good enough for me! Louie has the courage of his own convictions even if it may have a negative effect on his business or popularity!

Sorry, but Jesses lifts have been taken away, jesse has been dropped from the comp and banned. Sorry, gonna have to deal with it. It is what it is.....

Considering hte high squats and early rack calls, one would say taht he already HAS thrown his reputation away. Or perhaps he knopws the difference in rules/interpretation between the IPF and SPF, and altered his style to suit. For all we know, to him the bulge could have looked like a gut

Integrity is about posting with your real name on the Internet.

Stuffing a knee wrap under your bench shirt is respectable.

That's today's lesson on ethics.

The score is...

Jesse SPF guy = 1
Louie Westside= 0
Putt Houston = 13!!

Youre link on the awareness explain it all!

About the comments on the person who if they don't put pro numbers they don't have the right to comments...let's say thats these people may be the next big name and don't forget that a lifter is someone that make this thing called a sport. I got more respect about the special olympic guy who lift in my fed that some pro's who bash on the average lifter.

Now let's say that if we are on the internet and powerlift...we are a geek powerlifter!!

But his admitting to it is proof. A video that seems to indicate something under his shirt is not proof, particularly when eyewitnesses, including judges, who should have seen exactly that if there was something there, did nothing.

I'm no fan of what went on here generally. Some of the squats were quite high (no matter what angle the video was from!), some of the bench lockouts were not clean, or were absent entirely, along with some fast signals. Nonetheless, unless there were reliable witnesses who actually saw him put something under his shirt, or remove something from his shirt afterward, I believe that stripping him of his lifts and suspending him was an overreaction. The video looks odd, but doesn't really prove anything. Again, more than anything else, this should have served as a warning to officials to watch for "illegally extended bellies" (I'm struggling not to get started about belly benching). The circus this has rapidly become is yet another bad black eye to our sport.

This is my first time posting here. I have a friend that has a huge hernia and when he lays down and arches, it looks almost just like that.It sticks out at least 4 inches! All I'm asking is, could it be some sort of physical deviation like my friend's hernia?

I would love to see him bench without a shirt to see if he can still get that gut that high. I bet he can't and I wonder why.

The funny thing is, I haven't heard anybody from Westside say "he always arches like that". Anybody wonder why? Because he doesn't!

Damn Cheeter but the good thing is he won't get away with that twice.

i doubt he would have squatted and deadlifted if he had a hernia that stuck up 4 inches.

also, zane geeting: get the fuck off your high horse. everyone's entitled to an opinion; and you don't need an elite total to express it. anyone with 2 functioning eyes and who isn't brainwashed by all this Westsiiiiiiide bullshit can see that something is up with his shirt.

LMFAO @ people talking about "integrity," when they don't even have the nuts to think for themselves. Louie's word is final, huh? forget what you see, if Louie says it's this way, then it's this way. right.

if it's just in the vid, then how come there was a guy posting in one of the Frankl threads here on plwatch about Hoff's bench shirt even before the vids and pics came out...?

Am I missing something, but don't judges only check the equipment on the platform if the person sets a record. Hoff didn't set a record, right?

Does anyone have any old side view video footage of Hoff benching? If so, post it. If the alien lives within, it will reflect itself in all videos!

Ya think someone would have spoken up by now too if they've seen that alien before in training...haven't heard a word from no one yet.

Lol he could of stuffed a three board in his shirt or it could be the video angle? Either way in another year they will have a bench shirt that is so thick that all will be pressing that distance lol. When people are pulling with all of there might to get bars to touch their chests because gravity isn't strong enough to make it happen and are shaking like a chihuhua in winter to lower the squat to parallel only to be propelled upwards three times faster then there decent who cares if he has shit stuffed in his shirt lol. The whole concept of the equipped sport is to use outside devices to lift weights for you. If you don't like the sideshow that some equipped lifting meets have become and wanna be in the run for less cash money come join myself and all the other weak raw lifters who don't put up those incredible numbers haha. I am not surprised at any video or number i see popped out on the internet when it is done in multiply sumthin or another. I'm personally putting even my knee wraps in the garbage for a lil while and doing a 100% raw meet.....I don't think there will be any controversy over how strong people actually are there....but i am probably wrong....right?:) power to the lifters and to anyone involved in our sport regardless of there federation.....just have some fun with it.and don;t forget don't be a sissy haha

I love how everyone keeps saying IPF judge so it must have been good. LOL! The guy is not one. Plus, Westside has zero IPF champs so stop using the name to give credibility to the lifts and lifters. Be content with where you lift.

PJ used to be the top IPF referee. He was well respected by the other IPF officials. Wasn't he the IPF referee chairman?

I think that the slippery slope isn't that difficult to find in this. If you take illegal performance enhancing drugs(by the law, not your fed) in order to increase your natural abilites and couple that with multiple plys of this or that and a shirt that won't even allow you to lower a weight that would otherwise crush you, is it really that big of a stretch of the imagination that you could conceive of the possibility of adding a little something, something to boost your performance another notch?
Powerlifting has become just too silly to continue to follow unless it is without all of the dog and pony show that it now entails.

WWW.ATLARGENUTRITION.COM

I respect Louie because the man tells it how it is. No one saw anything. Nothing can be proven conclusively AFTER the fact. So, like I have said over and over, all you have left is conjecture.

Chris

To everyone yelling "I was 10 feet away from him and I didn't see anything, so there was no way he had anything stuffed up there... blah blah blah." Did you ever think that when someone decides to cheat at anything, that they want to, I don't know... MAKE IT AS DISCREET AS POSSIBLE SO THEY DON'T GET CAUGHT?! You act like the only way he could have possibly cheated would have been if he walked up there with a 2x4 and stuffed it up his shirt on the platform.

If a major league pitcher decides he wants to doctor up the ball with vasoline, do you expect the pitcher to casually walk to the mound with a jar in his hand? Or do you think he might try to hide the vasoline as best he could???? By the logic of the "front row defenders," if you didn't see the pitcher rub the vasoline on the ball from the first row, then there is no way he cheated even if the cameras showed he did.

The argument that "no one saw it, so you can't prove anything after the fact" is complete bull... Think about all of the caught on film shows out there. I can recall NUMEROUS clips from these shows where a guy walks into a crowded store and swipes an item off the shelf and no one notices. Does that mean the he didn't do it? HELL NO!!!! The guy is a thief and the VIDEO CAUGHT HIM EVEN THOUGH NO ONE IN THE STORE DID!!! It's the same here.

If I was Hoff and my credibility was on the line and I TRULY didn't cheat, you better believe I would be raising hell about it and posting vids of me putting on a bench shirt with nothing under it and demonstrating that the ridge was still there.

WWW.ATLARGENUTRITION.COM

Anonymous, you are correct, Louie has not "evented" anything. He has, however, INVENTED a few things...

Oh, and he has never claimed to have invented ME or DE styles of training...

Lol, the internet, you gotta love it!