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USPF Adopts New Wording for BP Performance

(updated with official wording)

At the federation's Annual Meeting, at last weekend's Nationals, the USPF National Committe voted unanimously to define how low the bar can touch on a bench press. The current wording is that lifters must "lower the bar to the chest". The Executive Committee approved wording that defines the chest as ending at the pec line. Specifically, the new wording will read that "the chest area is defined as from the bottom of the collarbone to the bottom of the pectoral muscle line at the STERNUM." The bar can be touched no lower than that line.

The new definition is the most restrictive in powerlifting. The IPF defines the the chest as finishing "at the base of the sternum / breastbone".

A number of lifters at Nationals have indicated that judges began implementing the clarification the next day rather than waiting until it took effect after the competition.

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I guess Belly benching is on its way out the door.
I just don’t know how you can tell were the pec-line is when a lifters is wearing a bench shirt.

What the fuck has where you tuch the bar got to do with benching? If you lower it to your dick or throat it really does not matter. Get it down and up with signals and its good. This is IPF-style bullshit

Anonymous wrote:
What the fuck has where you tuch the bar got to do with benching? If you lower it to your dick or throat it really does not matter. Get it down and up with signals and its good. This is IPF-style bullshit

I agree with this. Why is it that they even make a rule like this. It should be a personal choice of strength and leverages as to where you place the bar. If your a fat ass and have almost zero bar travel that is something that others have to contend with, but it should not screw you.

The one true rule that I hate and I know this is off topic, but the feet flat on the ground rule. Can somebody please explain this to me. I have done both, feet flat while competing with the USPF and tucking back on the toes. Why is this such a huge issue for judging?

This is to keep out the multiply lifters that have been coming over and throwing up ridiculous numbers and wrecking the single ply party.

I don't even touch my pecs raw, I do not see how I could possibly do it in a shirt.

The pec line?

1) i will put on a bench shirt and you tell me where this is. If you are a fat lifter you will be able to tell, not fat - you won't be able too.

2) since I have a torn pec, I have to lift with the elbows in. My raw bench is touching below my sternum.

3) watch any ipf bench meet and nobody has a clue what is going on with this rule, some lifters are belly benching and getting 3 whites while others are not and getting dq'ed.

Benchin with your elbows is good for the peck and shoulders. This new rule will increse injuries.
Good luck with that. I will not compete were this rule is.

Anonymous wrote:
Benchin with your elbows is good for the peck and shoulders. This new rule will increse injuries.
Good luck with that. I will not compete were this rule is.

y'know..my right shoulder did hurt a bit after the meet...

Great opportunity blown for the USPF - but hey let's follow the other Feds and push strong lifters away. That way, those who don't bench for sh** can at least place!

Next I see them chalking the bar to see the where the bar rests on your chest - then doing a touch check to confirm you are not too low -

Or maybe this is a strike at Titan since the shirts are made to touch lower.

The USPF is becoming more & more a fed to discourage lifters. It costs too much money to travel for a hobby only to go home because what you did in the last meet was no good this day.

This is actually amzingly stupid!! It is a bench press not a chest press..depending on how you are built this can be difficult...touching the upper portion of the torso should be fine. It becomes less of a test of true power if you can not press from your idividual optimum pressing positon. USPF you have made some big gains as of late and on your way back to the top judging by the huge turn out at nationals...why screw things up?? Lame ass decision.

look i can understand why everyone is upset hell i'm pissed, but when rome you know the rest. in a moment of anger and haste i may have said i won't be back. now as usual I'm home my belly is full and the meet is over things don't look or feel so bad. now barring any other changes in the future i know what is expected and i will train within those guidelines.i don't think as grown adult the judges would intentionally single lifters out or at least i would hope not.my experience so far has been positive at least from my point of view. Steve put on a great meet i had a good time considering.

" I fear no man nor do I have any limits "
Charles "BIG DADDY" Bailey

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It is called a bench press, not a belly toss.

Let me just chime in here and clarify that this was agenda Item 3. What it did was to add a note to the USPF rulebook in Part 4, line 9.
The note will say that the chest area is defined as from the bottom of the collarbone to the bottom of the pectoral muscle line at the STERNUM. The bar can be placed no further than the bottom of the pectoral/Sternum line. This was submitted by Ted Isabella and was passed.

The EC also approved the WPF rules to be used at all National championships. This is effective January 1, 2010. The WPF does not currently have a definition for the chest. So things could be different at Worlds in Vegas.
The EC also left it up to State Chairman if they wanted to use WPF rules at the local level or stay with current USPF rules. For California I will go with WPF rules starting January 1 at all USPF local meets. This will better prepare lifters for Nationals and Worlds.

Steve Denison
www.powerliftingCA.com

Anonymous wrote:
It is called a bench press, not a belly toss.

That is funny shit. Lets call it a chest press,LOL

Everyone knows this is silliness...are these rules passed by ythose who no longer compete?? I mean come on now, let the members vote and see what they think...can't imagine many who actually compete would think that rule is reasonable, fair or for the good of the sport.

This is exactly what drove me away from USAPL meets. I have long arms and a short torso, I don't touch that high raw. I think some of the growth that the USPF has seen lately was related to the IPF's adoption of a similar rule, I think this is a very bad move. I was considering the USPF for a place to compete single ply, but if it's going to turn into the IPF then I'll just go somewhere else. These type of rules don't help anyone, what if they got rid of sumo deadlift and didn't let you squat wider than shoulder width? Part of this sport is determining where your best leverages are and manipulating them.

Like others have said, there is no way that a judge can consistantly find the bottom of the pecs at the sternum on every lifter, this makes the already difficult job of judging even more difficult.

Another issue being that the shirts of today are made to groove the bar low to get the most out of the shirt. Restricting bar placement restricts the lifter, makes the totals lower, hurts sells of the equipment manufacturer, and hurts the membership totals of the feds, I dont see how this can be a good rule for anyone

Steve Denison wrote:
Let me just chime in here and clarify that this was agenda Item 3. What it did was to add a note to the USPF rulebook in Part 4, line 9.
The note will say that the chest area is defined as from the bottom of the collarbone to the bottom of the pectoral muscle line at the STERNUM. The bar can be placed no further than the bottom of the pectoral/Sternum line. This was submitted by Ted Isabella and was passed.

The EC also approved the WPF rules to be used at all National championships. This is effective January 1, 2010. The WPF does not currently have a definition for the chest. So things could be different at Worlds in Vegas.
The EC also left it up to State Chairman if they wanted to use WPF rules at the local level or stay with current USPF rules. For California I will go with WPF rules starting January 1 at all USPF local meets. This will better prepare lifters for Nationals and Worlds.

Steve Denison
www.powerliftingCA.com

Steve quick question if the EC voted to adopt WPF rules as of next year how can each state elect to use rules that no longer apply and why would they.i thought accepting WPF rules applied down the line.

i think if the USPF are going to ask the lifters to accept changes and adjust according such as this weekend. then its should do the same in regards to accepting the WPF rules every state should have to comply whether they like it or not.that i think would make better sense of what happened this weekend.

once again steve you did a great job this weekend.

New USPF benching rules = the restrictor plates of Nascar. Clearly implemented to slow the dramatic increase in bench numbers.

Yes it is a bench press - not a belly press... but why wait until the Nationals to become sticklers for the rules?

Those same judges that red-lighted many of the "belly" benches, are those seen in many videos on YouTube standing idle or celebrating while those big benches were given the ok. You cannot move the goal post at the 11th hour and expect everyone to be ok with it.

If you are going to define what amount of leverage can be utilized, then will you (USPF) restrict the leg placement for the Squat?

Will you (USPF) restrict the sumo?

Will you USFP do away with the tapered collar of the Titan Super Katana (after-all) it's double ply over a single ply shirt.

Will you USPF begin testing to level the playing field?

Will you USPF begin to check the gear prior to every lift?

Where does it stop? The USPF is made the USPF by the members - therefore the members should have a say in the way it is run - NOT JUST SOME HAS BEEN WHO DECIDES TO TAKE HIS SHORTCOMINGS OUT ON THOSE WHO CAN OUT LIFT HIM. FOR THIS NEXT YEARS NATIONALS AND THIS YEARS WORLDS WILL SUFFER.

Wearing a shirt bringing the bar to the bottom of the pec is a bit difficult. Most shirts grooves are not that high if you have a good arch. I don't even bring the bar that high benching raw. That would have to be a great adjustment and may be hard to learn. Benching to the sternum is one thing, but where the pec meets the sternum aleast a few inches higher than what I am used to.

BIG DADDY wrote:
Steve Denison wrote:
Let me just chime in here and clarify that this was agenda Item 3. What it did was to add a note to the USPF rulebook in Part 4, line 9.
The note will say that the chest area is defined as from the bottom of the collarbone to the bottom of the pectoral muscle line at the STERNUM. The bar can be placed no further than the bottom of the pectoral/Sternum line. This was submitted by Ted Isabella and was passed.

The EC also approved the WPF rules to be used at all National championships. This is effective January 1, 2010. The WPF does not currently have a definition for the chest. So things could be different at Worlds in Vegas.
The EC also left it up to State Chairman if they wanted to use WPF rules at the local level or stay with current USPF rules. For California I will go with WPF rules starting January 1 at all USPF local meets. This will better prepare lifters for Nationals and Worlds.

Steve Denison
www.powerliftingCA.com

Steve quick question if the EC voted to adopt WPF rules as of next year how can each state elect to use rules that no longer apply and why would they.i thought accepting WPF rules applied down the line.

i think if the USPF are going to ask the lifters to accept changes and adjust according such as this weekend. then its should do the same in regards to accepting the WPF rules every state should have to comply whether they like it or not.that i think would make better sense of what happened this weekend.

once again steve you did a great job this weekend.

The WPF rules are only mandatory at National meets and optional for each state to adopt at the local level. I'm sure most state chairman will adopt the rules because it will better prepare their lifters for nationals and worlds. The EC did not want to force it down to the local level. There could be an agenda item at next years national meeting to adopt it down to the local level. I feel we are moving in the right direction. That's my opinion.

Hooray for California! That's good for us long-armed people. I don't even touch the bottom of my pecks when benching raw. It definitely makes sense to use the national and world rules at local meets.

It'll be interesting how the rules are applied at future national meets. There was clearly a difference in interpretation with the east coast judges. It'll be interesting how they judge at the next nationals.

www.wildirongym.com
Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook

Is there any good lifters out there who like this rule? I highly doubt it, maybe some dude with a 550lbs press thinks that it is fair, but i doubt there are any 700+ benchers who feel this is a good rule (regaurdless of where they touch).

In my mind its always been a rule put in place to make the bad benchers feel better about themselves.

I also touch below my sternum when benching raw, and it took me a few minutes just to find my sternum as my stomach is very hard in that area. Good luck another person finding it, let alone with a bench shirt on.

Go to an ipf meet and everyone has custom shirts with the logos moved down 2 inches because that is the only real thing the judges have to look at.

Why raise the issue and feel it only applies to 700+ benchers? How many 700+ benchers are there in the USPF? I know of one in the 242's, and 2 in the 300+........ If your idea of a good bencher benches 700 or more - then I guess there aren't very many "good" benchers in the USPF are there?

Anonymous wrote:
What the fuck has where you tuch the bar got to do with benching? If you lower it to your dick or throat it really does not matter. Get it down and up with signals and its good. This is IPF-style bullshit

Lets all work on our reading skills. Following this comment the herd just ran wild bashing the IPF.

This is a USPF rule. They are not affiliated with the IPF. The IPF is referenced as a comparison. In particular, that the USPF's new rule is more strict than the IPF's.

Read. Reflect. Compose. Comment.

Steve Denison wrote:
Let me just chime in here and clarify that this was agenda Item 3. What it did was to add a note to the USPF rulebook in Part 4, line 9.
The note will say that the chest area is defined as from the bottom of the collarbone to the bottom of the pectoral muscle line at the STERNUM. The bar can be placed no further than the bottom of the pectoral/Sternum line. This was submitted by Ted Isabella and was passed.

The EC also approved the WPF rules to be used at all National championships. This is effective January 1, 2010. The WPF does not currently have a definition for the chest. So things could be different at Worlds in Vegas.
The EC also left it up to State Chairman if they wanted to use WPF rules at the local level or stay with current USPF rules. For California I will go with WPF rules starting January 1 at all USPF local meets. This will better prepare lifters for Nationals and Worlds.

Steve Denison
www.powerliftingCA.com


Steve, they should just let you run all the big meets since you are the only one that makes any sense. I want to also add that this change to the rule pretty much makes any of the current shirts worthless in this fed. They might as well make everyone bench raw or use an Inzer Blast shirt.

Brad Cikana wrote:

Steve, they should just let you run all the big meets since you are the only one that makes any sense. I want to also add that this change to the rule pretty much makes any of the current shirts worthless in this fed. They might as well make everyone bench raw or use an Inzer Blast shirt.

nah, I think with the right tweaking a straight sleeve Katana or an Inzer Rage would be ok...just won't get as much carryover.

of course...not being able to afford more gear this year means I might be screwed...

I am concerned that there will be more injuries with this new rule Steve. We teach lifters to squeeze their back tight and tuck their elbows to protect their sholders and prevent injury.

If you do this the touching the bar to your chest (in the fashion described by the rule above)this will cause the lifter to move the bar up toward their face (like a skull crusher) and with bench weights may be a disaster in the making (no one wants a lifter hit in the head or neck!).

Flaring the elbows out is also known to damage sholders in lifters.

Whatever decision you and the EC make please take into account the health of the lifters at these events.

Edward G. Dudley-Robey, M.D.
http://www.DoctorBench.com

This rule is made and enforced by people with very weak bench presses. I'm talking about dudes that can't even bench double there bodyweight in a bench shirt! Can some one tell me for fuck sake why is there even a rule against belly benching?

Let's put a cap on how much you can bench but let's open the flood gates on how much you can squat by going from 1.5 ply to a full on 2 ply.
Single ply should mean single ply [No Briefs].

Plus it may prove dangerous for people to walk weights out with more gear.

I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

DrDudleyRobey wrote:
I am concerned that there will be more injuries with this new rule Steve. We teach lifters to squeeze their back tight and tuck their elbows to protect their sholders and prevent injury.

If you do this the touching the bar to your chest (in the fashion described by the rule above)this will cause the lifter to move the bar up toward their face (like a skull crusher) and with bench weights may be a disaster in the making (no one wants a lifter hit in the head or neck!).

Flaring the elbows out is also known to damage sholders in lifters.

Whatever decision you and the EC make please take into account the health of the lifters at these events.

Edward G. Dudley-Robey, M.D.
http://www.DoctorBench.com

this is by far the most pertinent point of the thread, although I do agree with many of the comments. The sternum plate should be the lowest touch point. You should consider the benchers with great arches as well. The bottom of the pecs, I feel, is not the right spot as there is more potentiel for injury and really not possible with the newest shirts on the market.

In the end, the USPF will do the right thing. They always do.

Putt Houston

Anonymous wrote:

Will you (USPF) restrict the sumo?

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Putt Houston wrote:
DrDudleyRobey wrote:
I am concerned that there will be more injuries with this new rule Steve. We teach lifters to squeeze their back tight and tuck their elbows to protect their sholders and prevent injury.

If you do this the touching the bar to your chest (in the fashion described by the rule above)this will cause the lifter to move the bar up toward their face (like a skull crusher) and with bench weights may be a disaster in the making (no one wants a lifter hit in the head or neck!).

Flaring the elbows out is also known to damage sholders in lifters.

Whatever decision you and the EC make please take into account the health of the lifters at these events.

Edward G. Dudley-Robey, M.D.
http://www.DoctorBench.com

this is by far the most pertinent point of the thread, although I do agree with many of the comments. The sternum plate should be the lowest touch point. You should consider the benchers with great arches as well. The bottom of the pecs, I feel, is not the right spot as there is more potentiel for injury and really not possible with the newest shirts on the market.

In the end, the USPF will do the right thing. They always do.

Putt Houston

How can you tell where the sternum ends? Unless you have x-ray eyes you just can't.

This is a rule that is 100% flawed as it is impossible to judge anywhere near accurately. Look at the IPF bench worlds, it was a total crap shoot if you got reds or whites for belly benching.

How bout we just ban benchpressing alltogether?

Mark Bell wrote:
Let's put a cap on how much you can bench but let's open the flood gates on how much you can squat by going from 1.5 ply to a full on 2 ply.
Single ply should mean single ply [No Briefs].

Plus it may prove dangerous for people to walk weights out with more gear.

Did they actually vote to allow full-leg briefs?

Crazy anti bench presser stuff here.....

From the WPF rulebook:
After receiving the bar at arm’s length, the lifter shall lower the bar to the chest and await the head referee’s signal.

It is worth noting that the USPF approved the use of WPF rules. So it seems to me that this is a moot point. The new wording was added to the USPF rulebook, not the WPF, which does not define the chest in the same way (or at all). It seems to me that this would void any new USPF rule, as they now will follow the WPF rulebook except at local meets where they can choose to use the USPF rulebook. Steve has stated that he will use the WPF rulebook, which means the new wording means absolutely nothing here in California, at nationals, or at worlds.

Bill Newman wrote:
Brad Cikana wrote:

Steve, they should just let you run all the big meets since you are the only one that makes any sense. I want to also add that this change to the rule pretty much makes any of the current shirts worthless in this fed. They might as well make everyone bench raw or use an Inzer Blast shirt.

nah, I think with the right tweaking a straight sleeve Katana or an Inzer Rage would be ok...just won't get as much carryover.

of course...not being able to afford more gear this year means I might be screwed...


Bill, I would love to see you do a bench with any type of katana where it touches your pec line. Never going to happen with those long hairy arms of yours.

It figures that a EC Board member from Rhode Island with a 400 pound bench at 275 would bring this rule up and get it passed, go figure.

My question is, What is the point of changing the USPF rule is state chairmen and meet directors don't have to use the USPF rule book? Why have a USPF rule book if they can all choose to follow the WPF rule book? This allows things to stay like they are for lifters. Depending on which rule book is choosen to be followed at the meet will determine if lifters decide to compete or not.

Brant Bishop
WABDL AL Chairman
"Power Forever"

i remember talking about this with someone a while back, he told me to suck it up and just bench cos Kaz, captain kirk etc benched like this. Kaz did bench big with the bench to the chest form, however I agree with Louie Simmons when he said that "we should move forward, with advances in equipment and technique(like tucking elbows and low bar placement?), not backwards". I don't mean to make anything controversial here, i just wanted to share a thought.

If you look at some IPF lifters who have been subjected to this rule its not so bad. I went to USAPL mens nationals after bombing out of a bench only meet a few weeks before for belly benching in my super katana. I wore the same shirt and sucked it up and put my elbows out a little for nationals. I got my opener on my third try but its possible, and I felt like the shirt tightened up so much quicker and maybe lifters can learn to get more pop like this.

Joseph Cappellino

The Executive Committee of the USPF is voting on rules purposed by a super select few insiders that seem to protect the records of long ago to the exclusion of a newer generation of lifters. Things like monolifts are routinely mocked by the old school guys who would prefer that we all get knee injuries so that their drugged up records can't be beat by geared up lifters.

The "belly bench" is nothing new. As a matter of fact I was just looking at some recent PLUSAs and saw some great photos from the early 80s where the benchers were benching flat backed, flat feet, ELBOWS TUCKED WITH THE BAR BELOW THE PEC LINE!!! The early 80s was obviously the era of the USPF and the IPF. What the EC has done is completely changed the nature and definition of the bench press. This is a bad precedent and a bad rule, and one more reason why I will not bench in the USPF.

Steve Denison wrote:
Let me just chime in here and clarify that this was agenda Item 3. What it did was to add a note to the USPF rulebook in Part 4, line 9.
The note will say that the chest area is defined as from the bottom of the collarbone to the bottom of the pectoral muscle line at the STERNUM. The bar can be placed no further than the bottom of the pectoral/Sternum line. This was submitted by Ted Isabella and was passed.

The EC also approved the WPF rules to be used at all National championships. This is effective January 1, 2010. The WPF does not currently have a definition for the chest. So things could be different at Worlds in Vegas.
The EC also left it up to State Chairman if they wanted to use WPF rules at the local level or stay with current USPF rules. For California I will go with WPF rules starting January 1 at all USPF local meets. This will better prepare lifters for Nationals and Worlds.

Steve Denison
www.powerliftingCA.com

Hi Steve, thanks for the clarification, and I appreciate the rules you will implement for CA.

The only thing I do ask is that we as lifters be advised before our training cycle begins of the bench rule that will be enforced at World's. Will it be the WPF rule or will it be the newly passed USPF rule...or will it be a combination of the two? I believe we all just want to train in accordance with the rules that will be enforced.

Also, would you consider sending an email to all USPF members summarizing the most significant differences in the USPF rules vs. the WPF rules that will be applied at Worlds in Vegas 2009.

In closing, I think you did a great job with the meet this past weekend and you really are an asset to us in CA.

Anonymous wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

Your statement is actually not true. All competitive athletes know the rules in advance of the competition. To change the rules on meet day can mentally affect the athlete. Let the person's competitor mess with their head, not the people writing the rules.

I have short arms, I bench really close to my Pec line, but what ever dont matter WE are good now, WPF rules rock, I know that Steve is trying to Change the Rule about legged Briefs in the Squat.

Long Live "Power lifting" with out bull shit!!

Anonymous wrote:
It is called a bench press, not a belly toss.

I dont see why it has to either be a belly bench or a chest press?

Why cant the rules state the bar must touch above the xiphoid process. Anything above this area is not on the belly and if people want to go a little bit lower at least it isnt on the abs.

This is equivilant imo to saying you cant deadlift sumo.

I think more people will end up with shoulder problems due to this rule change.

I understand not wanting belly benching, but this is a whole different story.

Oh well, we have to abide by these rules.

Long live the USPF!

Biglouy wrote:
If you look at some IPF lifters who have been subjected to this rule its not so bad. I went to USAPL mens nationals after bombing out of a bench only meet a few weeks before for belly benching in my super katana. I wore the same shirt and sucked it up and put my elbows out a little for nationals. I got my opener on my third try but its possible, and I felt like the shirt tightened up so much quicker and maybe lifters can learn to get more pop like this.

Joseph Cappellino

Even the IPF lets you bench lower than this.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

Your statement is actually not true. All competitive athletes know the rules in advance of the competition. To change the rules on meet day can mentally affect the athlete. Let the person's competitor mess with their head, not the people writing the rules.

Everyone has the same rules regardless of the timing of rule changes. Good lifters adapt and poor lifters whine.

Anonymous wrote:
Putt Houston wrote:
DrDudleyRobey wrote:
I am concerned that there will be more injuries with this new rule Steve. We teach lifters to squeeze their back tight and tuck their elbows to protect their sholders and prevent injury.

If you do this the touching the bar to your chest (in the fashion described by the rule above)this will cause the lifter to move the bar up toward their face (like a skull crusher) and with bench weights may be a disaster in the making (no one wants a lifter hit in the head or neck!).

Flaring the elbows out is also known to damage sholders in lifters.

Whatever decision you and the EC make please take into account the health of the lifters at these events.

Edward G. Dudley-Robey, M.D.
http://www.DoctorBench.com

this is by far the most pertinent point of the thread, although I do agree with many of the comments. The sternum plate should be the lowest touch point. You should consider the benchers with great arches as well. The bottom of the pecs, I feel, is not the right spot as there is more potentiel for injury and really not possible with the newest shirts on the market.

In the end, the USPF will do the right thing. They always do.

Putt Houston

How can you tell where the sternum ends? Unless you have x-ray eyes you just can't.

This is a rule that is 100% flawed as it is impossible to judge anywhere near accurately. Look at the IPF bench worlds, it was a total crap shoot if you got reds or whites for belly benching.

How bout we just ban benchpressing alltogether?

I should reiterate that I personally don't care where it touches. I just think the bottom of the pecs is a little extreme... maybe possible... but extreme nonetheless.

Putt Houston

Big Fig wrote:
e told me to suck it up and just bench cos Kaz, captain kirk etc benched like this. Kaz did bench big with the bench to the chest form

Kaz when benching touched about the pec line, maybe a little lower

From memory Coan was similar

The captain kirk video i have now he looks to be touching lower than the pec line

The great man James Henderson benches to around pec line, but on a man as large as him, it would be nearly impossible to tell where the pec line is.

This rule is not taking benching back to the old way

I'm not saying that it's taking benching back the old way, i'm just trying to say that there are some who want to bench the new way because, as seen above, it produces less injury (elbows tuck, bringing the bar low). And it may be hard to bring down even with the new single ply shirts such as the katana, from first hand experience it can be challenging to bring it down high on the chest. Just my thoughts, no arguments to anyone.

Anonymous wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

the belly benchers will lose 100-150 off there bench press thats why there crying. without there belly benching shirts there true strength will show. great call uspf.

What I want to know is how can there be two sets of rules, SUPF Rules and WPF Rules.
1. If they are saying that they are part of the WPF and they except the WPF shouldnt they be going by the WPF Rules, period.
2. Why are they saying it is up to the State Chairmen to choose which rules they go by. Are all states suppose to be going by the same rules?
3. How can that be fair? Sounds like the ones at the top don't have the balls to even make there own stand.
4. If it is up to the states to choose which rules they go by, sounds like some will be allowed to still belly bench and some will not.
How fair will that be?

recognize wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

the belly benchers will lose 100-150 off there bench press thats why there crying. without there belly benching shirts there true strength will show. great call uspf.

recognize wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

the belly benchers will lose 100-150 off there bench press thats why there crying. without there belly benching shirts there true strength will show. great call uspf.

You sure about that? Belly benching was never allowed in the USPF. Why not enforce the rules instead of making new ones?

recognize wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

the belly benchers will lose 100-150 off there bench press thats why there crying. without there belly benching shirts there true strength will show. great call uspf.

If you are such a powerlifting purist, recognize, Why dont you complain about sumo deadlifters or sumo squatters.

This is equivilant to telling a deadlifter that they have to pull with the feet inside the armpit line. And squat with your feet inside the same line. Will most squat less with this setup? Yes. Maybe 100-150 pound difference huh?

recognize wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of whining - powerlifters are supposed to be tough people. All rule changes will apply to all lifters equally - deal with it! The best lifters always adapt to the conditions of the contest.

the belly benchers will lose 100-150 off there bench press thats why there crying. without there belly benching shirts there true strength will show. great call uspf.

What belly benching shirts are you talking about? THe USPF only allows single ply closed back shirts. Even so, none of those shirts were made for benching at the pec line. If you bench elbows in and shoulder blades back (which is the safest way to do it) it is almost impossible to touch the pec line with any of these shirts. It's not like we are arguing that they should allow open back double ply.

I agree with Mark Bell, it is a way to help the weak bencher. Like our education system, instead of making people excel, we lower the standards to even the playing field.

I am a poor bencher, but I would rather work on learning to be a better bencher than have everyone lower their standards so my feeling do not get upset.

I also bench lower than my sterum, what is the use of having a big belly if you cannot shorten your bench stroke?

That is a ridiculous ruling by the EC. I hope really hope someone will step up at next years meeting to get this rule over turned or at least made to a more reasonable wording. I don't know the true reasoning or rationale behind such a restrictive ruling but I think it brings to question what sort of some agenda some individuals may have.

Benching to such a point on the chest as defined by the new wording is going to lead to many more shoulder and pec injuries. It is simply not as safe on the shoulder joint as a more tucked elbow position. There is no doubt the number of injuries is going to go up trying to lift to this new standard. So bench numbers will go down, injuries will go up and we will have one more rule in the book that is shady and hard to interpret and apply. GREAT! Have we not learned anything from the constant controversey regarding squat depth? Well the same situation was just created for the bench press. GOOD JOB!

If the WPF has no definition of chest and therefore no rule as to where bar placement should be on the chest, why was this rule being inforced on WPF record attempts? These lifts were already being performed with the WPF commands. Should not ALL of the WPF rules been followed?

Steve has done great things with the USPF in California and those efforts should be applauded by the EC. He is representing over half of the membership and without US and him where would the USPF be right now? I know one thing. There would not have been so many people at the 2009 Nationals! Too bad some bad apples had to cloud the air with negativity. It was a great meet otherwise.

BTW........I have zero sour grapes as a result of my own lifting. I had a very off day for a whole slew of reasons but thought I could put a lift or two together anyway. I was wrong. Next time.

IF the USPF is aligned with the WPF then there needs to be a constant when it comes to rules of performance. Otherwise the scenario could rise that a WPF World Bench Press Record attempt would be turned down for belly benching, when in fact, it would pass according to WPF wording of the rules. If I'm wrong so be it... it's just a scenario that popped into my head just now.

Putt Houston.... now with Ridiculous BCWW

Ryan Girard wrote:
That is a ridiculous ruling by the EC. I hope really hope someone will step up at next years meeting to get this rule over turned or at least made to a more reasonable wording. I don't know the true reasoning or rationale behind such a restrictive ruling but I think it brings to question what sort of some agenda some individuals may have.

Benching to such a point on the chest as defined by the new wording is going to lead to many more shoulder and pec injuries. It is simply not as safe on the shoulder joint as a more tucked elbow position. There is no doubt the number of injuries is going to go up trying to lift to this new standard. So bench numbers will go down, injuries will go up and we will have one more rule in the book that is shady and hard to interpret and apply. GREAT! Have we not learned anything from the constant controversey regarding squat depth? Well the same situation was just created for the bench press. GOOD JOB!

If the WPF has no definition of chest and therefore no rule as to where bar placement should be on the chest, why was this rule being inforced on WPF record attempts? These lifts were already being performed with the WPF commands. Should not ALL of the WPF rules been followed?

Steve has done great things with the USPF in California and those efforts should be applauded by the EC. He is representing over half of the membership and without US and him where would the USPF be right now? I know one thing. There would not have been so many people at the 2009 Nationals! Too bad some bad apples had to cloud the air with negativity. It was a great meet otherwise.

BTW........I have zero sour grapes as a result of my own lifting. I had a very off day for a whole slew of reasons but thought I could put a lift or two together anyway. I was wrong. Next time.


Ryan makes a good point. How is the chest going to be defined at worlds? The chest is actually defined as the part of the body enclosed by the ribs and sternum. If that is the case then the lifter should be able to bring the bar pretty low.

I thought the point of benching is to move the greatest amount of weight!! Wy limit it? The Chest press is not the optimum pressing point for most lifters raw or shirted. Make the rule reasonable.

We have evolved in our knowledge of lifting and found that lifting techniques that generally work best for moving max weight safely...All sports evolve as sports science evolves, why not PL...

Brad Cikana wrote:
What belly benching shirts are you talking about? THe USPF only allows single ply closed back shirts.

Go look at Mark Bells single ply super katana clips

or Mike Womac's 900 from the other day

the only way to touch in a tight modern shirt is to touch low

Anonymous wrote:
I thought the point of benching is to move the greatest amount of weight!! Wy limit it? The Chest press is not the optimum pressing point for most lifters raw or shirted. Make the rule reasonable.

We have evolved in our knowledge of lifting and found that lifting techniques that generally work best for moving max weight safely...All sports evolve as sports science evolves, why not PL...


Stop going to the Feds that refuse to evolve with the times and see how fast they change there tune then. As long as they have you coming and spending money it will never end, it will get worse lot at the other fed that is even worse lifter friendly.

Medical definition of chest...

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=19270

Let's not make this overly complicated. Powerlifting shouldn't have a different definition of "chest" than the medical community.

www.wildirongym.com
Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook


Suzanne Hedman wrote:
Steve Denison wrote:
Let me just chime in here and clarify that this was agenda Item 3. What it did was to add a note to the USPF rulebook in Part 4, line 9.
The note will say that the chest area is defined as from the bottom of the collarbone to the bottom of the pectoral muscle line at the STERNUM. The bar can be placed no further than the bottom of the pectoral/Sternum line. This was submitted by Ted Isabella and was passed.

The EC also approved the WPF rules to be used at all National championships. This is effective January 1, 2010. The WPF does not currently have a definition for the chest. So things could be different at Worlds in Vegas.
The EC also left it up to State Chairman if they wanted to use WPF rules at the local level or stay with current USPF rules. For California I will go with WPF rules starting January 1 at all USPF local meets. This will better prepare lifters for Nationals and Worlds.

Steve Denison
www.powerliftingCA.com

Hi Steve, thanks for the clarification, and I appreciate the rules you will implement for CA.

The only thing I do ask is that we as lifters be advised before our training cycle begins of the bench rule that will be enforced at World's. Will it be the WPF rule or will it be the newly passed USPF rule...or will it be a combination of the two? I believe we all just want to train in accordance with the rules that will be enforced.

Also, would you consider sending an email to all USPF members summarizing the most significant differences in the USPF rules vs. the WPF rules that will be applied at Worlds in Vegas 2009.

In closing, I think you did a great job with the meet this past weekend and you really are an asset to us in CA.

At all WPF World meets you will see WPF rules applied. You will never see another nations rules applied. So you will never see USPF rules applied to any WPF World meet. That will never happen. Review the WPF rules online and be prepared under the current WPF rules for Worlds.
The WPF bench commands are press and rack and that's what will be used at Worlds.

JC Carter wrote:
Brad Cikana wrote:
What belly benching shirts are you talking about? THe USPF only allows single ply closed back shirts.

Go look at Mark Bells single ply super katana clips

or Mike Womac's 900 from the other day

the only way to touch in a tight modern shirt is to touch low

That was the point I was trying to make-Even the shirts USPF allows are made to touch lower than the sternum.

My feelings are the same towards a certain "I did not show up at USPF Nats" and the USPF, "DO NOT CARE!"

SmileyCentral.com

awwww poor babies...wow i really cant get over how much crying is going on in here...a strong person can be strong no matter what..now if you have little things you do to become strong..guess what..YOU NEVER WAS STRONG!!!!!

Wonder why they dont screw with sumo deadlifts?

Brad Cikana wrote:
JC Carter wrote:
Brad Cikana wrote:
What belly benching shirts are you talking about? THe USPF only allows single ply closed back shirts.

Go look at Mark Bells single ply super katana clips

or Mike Womac's 900 from the other day

the only way to touch in a tight modern shirt is to touch low

That was the point I was trying to make-Even the shirts USPF allows are made to touch lower than the sternum.

I'd like to respectfully disagree with both of you. The Katana straight/sleave IS designed to touch within the nipple/pec line/sternum range. I pull my shoulder blades in and tuck and have no problem. (And I stuff my 59 flab into a 53 shirt almost by myself now!)

joecool wrote:
SmileyCentral.com

awwww poor babies...wow i really cant get over how much crying is going on in here...a strong person can be strong no matter what..now if you have little things you do to become strong..guess what..YOU NEVER WAS STRONG!!!!!


You should know, and remember what goes around comes around,cool boy.

Anonymous wrote:
It figures that a EC Board member from Rhode Island with a 400 pound bench at 275 would bring this rule up and get it passed, go figure.

I am going to address this post and all the other together. I would like to clarify for all of you…IT WAS NOT THE EC COMMITTEE THAT PASSED THE RULE IT WAS THE WHOLE NATIONAL COMMITTEE WHO PASSED IT UNANIMOUSLY…does everyone have it now. What that means is that no one during the national committee meeting did not like the rule change. I will say it again… IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. That means the state chair, EC members, regional chairs, etc all voted to put this rule in place. As far defining the chest, your belly is not part of the chest your pectoral muscle makes up your chest, nothing else.

Medically your chest id defined by the area between you neck and abs. Look it up. It does not mean your belly. The rule has always been “bring the bar to your chest”, not your belly. All we did was more specifically define the chest area for there has always been a misinterpretation of the rule thinking the belly is part of the chest. It is not. So whether or not a 400-pound bencher proposed the rule, everyone else in the National Committee agreed that this clarification was needed for to many people think that belly benching is acceptable in the USPF. Well it is not.

"for to many people think that belly benching is acceptable in the USPF. Well it is not."

and this is the reason why your fed will experience membership issues well into the future. If you havent noticed all the best benchers bench to there belly, the shirts are made to bench that low, and there should be no rule at all saying where to touch.

you dont limit the width of the squat stance or the use of the sumo stance...all these things are done to limit the range of motion and to optimize leverage and use of equipment.

There are a few lifters and one "super" gym that was really trying to bring the fed into the present, but the USPF cant see the future cause of the past.

I guess every fed has a right to make the rules as they see fit. In the end , I doubt it will do anything but drive away lifters. I am not a belly bencher, but still don't understand how this can be enforced safely and accurately. Certain lifters have better body mechanics to touch low. The problem with this change now is about all the recent records. Even most of the more recent uspf records would not have passed by this new standard. I wouldn't say they were belly benches at all, but still lower then the bottom of the pec. If this rule stands, then most of the current recent records, will be untouchable. This would kind of make it a waste of time for the top guys looking to set a record. Maybe for someone who is just strti ng out or has no rela chance at breaking a record, the it won't matter. This will result in a fed with more vaerage or below average lifters and chase the top lifters away. It will be sad to think that a fed once known for having some of the legends of this sport has changed soo mmuch. It's reaaly too bad becasue the uspf was finally making a comeback and was gaining alot of attention by the top lifters. Many people are sick of loose judging and shady lifts being passed, and were hoping the uspf may offer a place for legitimate lifts to be recogognized. Unfortunately it isn't looking that way.

I would like to address two things:

1.)The wording of this rule was meant to remove confusion over where the Xyphoid Process is exactly. Talk about something invisible when you put on a shirt...LOL!! The Pec line forms an inverted "V" in the Shirt fabric when viewed from above , and thus is identifiable by the referee. So this rule has NOT changed ,but rather is further clarified.

2.)I own a Super Katana with a scooped neck and find this shirt wants to go low...but when I row like hell and keep the groove above the belly I get a "SERIOUS" "POP" off the chest. When I relax and let it go low, I tend to roll my wrists and lose some snap off the bottom...I got this shirt late in the cycle and didn't feel safe with my opener...so I went back to the Old Fury at the last moment to safeguard my Squat record....this scrubbed off 80# from my training weights..but given a couple more weeks of break-in and learning I would have no fear in using this shirt within the rules as they stand now.

Remember this rule has NOT Changed it has been more accurately defined...and yes ...ALL voted on this change.

Courtney Stanley
WPF Secretary
USPF Executive Committee

"USPF....the Legend continues......"

Anonymous wrote:
joecool wrote:
SmileyCentral.com

awwww poor babies...wow i really cant get over how much crying is going on in here...a strong person can be strong no matter what..now if you have little things you do to become strong..guess what..YOU NEVER WAS STRONG!!!!!


You should know, and remember what goes around comes around,cool boy.

SmileyCentral.com

Where the pecs meet the sternum is well above the xyphoid process. And where was this xyphoid process thing in the rule book anyway? If this clarification of rule was meant to take the confusion out of anything it certainly did not. From what I saw it caused quite a bit of discussion amongst the judges.

How about running these ideas past the lifters?

Ryan Girard wrote:
Where the pecs meet the sternum is well above the xyphoid process. And where was this xyphoid process thing in the rule book anyway? If this clarification of rule was meant to take the confusion out of anything it certainly did not. From what I saw it caused quite a bit of discussion amongst the judges.

How about running these ideas past the lifters?

What a grand Idea- Asking the people who actually shell out money for meet fees and membership cards what they think the rule should be.

The rule is stupid, just like the feet flat during the bench. If you don't restict the sumo deadlift or feet width on the squat, what does it matter where the bar stops as long as it can touch and goes up to complete lockout?

Hi steve,

Quick question. Yes I am anonymous but no I am not talking shit. I am wondering how you realisitcally think this rule will be enforced? Your opinion, as a person, judge, and meet director. You do understand that it is a rule that is virtually impossible to judge fairly, yes? It is like parallel but amplified 100x.

Honestly, the judging at Nats was already not so hot.. adding this will surely make things worse. If it ain't broken don't fix it.. USPF was heading full force ahead too.. depressing.

Brad Cikana wrote:
What a grand Idea- Asking the people who actually shell out money for meet fees and membership cards what they think the rule should be.
I've got a great idea too. The members should attend the national meeting and voice their opinions instead of complaining on the internet

maybe people cant afford traveling across the country to just voice an opinion. maybe we thought common sense was going to be used.

Anonymous wrote:
Brad Cikana wrote:
What a grand Idea- Asking the people who actually shell out money for meet fees and membership cards what they think the rule should be.
I've got a great idea too. The members should attend the national meeting and voice their opinions instead of complaining on the internet

How about an even better idea? Have the meeting AFTER nationals! Once most of the lifters are actualy in town, lifting is done etc etc. That way issues can be addressed and the changes made for NEXT year. Makes sense no? Nice try.

Why would this even be proposed?

Because if it the uspf is being aligned with the wpf, then the chest is NOT defined.

Ryan Girard wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Brad Cikana wrote:
What a grand Idea- Asking the people who actually shell out money for meet fees and membership cards what they think the rule should be.
I've got a great idea too. The members should attend the national meeting and voice their opinions instead of complaining on the internet

How about an even better idea? Have the meeting AFTER nationals! Once most of the lifters are actualy in town, lifting is done etc etc. That way issues can be addressed and the changes made for NEXT year. Makes sense no? Nice try.

It does not make sense. Holding the meeting Friday night would exclude lifters who arrive Saturday or late Friday for Sunday sessions. Having the meeting Saturday would mean that it would end well past midnight. Sunday is the day most leave for home. When do you propose having the meeting that takes these facts into account?

Anonymous wrote:
Ryan Girard wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Brad Cikana wrote:
What a grand Idea- Asking the people who actually shell out money for meet fees and membership cards what they think the rule should be.
I've got a great idea too. The members should attend the national meeting and voice their opinions instead of complaining on the internet

How about an even better idea? Have the meeting AFTER nationals! Once most of the lifters are actualy in town, lifting is done etc etc. That way issues can be addressed and the changes made for NEXT year. Makes sense no? Nice try.

It does not make sense. Holding the meeting Friday night would exclude lifters who arrive Saturday or late Friday for Sunday sessions. Having the meeting Saturday would mean that it would end well past midnight. Sunday is the day most leave for home. When do you propose having the meeting that takes these facts into account?

With two platforms running, lifting was over by about 5 every day.

Very jealous thinking went into this rule. How come no one asks about bias on behalf of judges or people trying to preserve old records that may be shady to begin with? Just when the uspf was approaching respectability, thanks to Mark Bell's team, the fed shoots itself in the foot and embarrasses itself to the PL community again. In a word DISGRACEFUL and yes I was there!