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Can Anyone Squat 1,000 Pounds Raw?

Or even 900 for that matter. At Monster Muscle they're trying to answer that question. The thread is started based partly on Scot Mendleson's interview for the upcoming powerlifting movie, Powerlifting Unlimited, where he claims to have raw squatted 1,000 pounds.

Opinions on whether a 1,000 raw squat has been achieved:

However, all I know is that the IPF world record (SHW) is almost exactly a grand (in full single ply gear) and that the guy that owns the IPF SHW division - Brian Siders - has not been able to squat 1000lb GEARED! If you look at it that way then things don't add up: Either the top IPF lifters suck or someone is talking bullshit.

honestly i dont think anyone in just a belt and wraps can squat 1000 to depth to where it would pass in competition.. probably 900's no doubt tho

I would even be surprised by a 900lb raw squat (down to proper depth). Remember that Brian Siders's lifetime best is "only" 980lb in full gear. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on 900lb.

I think there are a few guys that could do 900 in wraps and a belt. Didn't Mikesell do 903 in the APF this way in the past year or two?

Mark Henry. He did over 9 in just wraps and a belt, if I'm not mistaken.

Evedently(correct me if i am wrong) Mikesell, Kuc, Reinhoudt, Popov(i think there is a video of him doing it raw in training in irongame) have done it.

I believe Andy Bolton can and probably Gary Frank. I KNOW that Steve Goggins at only 250lbs can squat over 800 no wraps without training for a raw squat. I would be willing to put money that he can do 900 in a short raw training cycle.

Paul Anderson is the only one I know of to handle that kind of weight raw. If you could find clips from the Ed Sullivan show Paul supposed did a 1200lbs. squat on there in like 1959-1960.

AS for the raw squat- don reinhoudt has the official highest raw squat of 947 pounds in just a belt, i wouldnt doubt him to be the STRONGEST squatter of all time
- and i also believe that paul anderson squatted up to as much as they said he did

there is no one that has squatted a grand raw and if any one has i want to see it.you would think that if you could squat a grand raw they would take the time to do a meet raw and do it officailly.if they could do it. instead they just claim to do it. you know damn well if they did it as a gym lift they would have some video of the lift, come on how many of you guys video your PRs? i know i do.mendelson is full of shit.(i think his bench is shit too, but thats another story)if he squatted a grand raw he would do it in a meet, but no "squattings not his thing" there is a video on irongame of a russian guys squatting 947 or something in a belt in wraps and he is ass to calves.now if you want to talk raw thats a bad ass squat

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What about CAPT.KIRK? He can for sure do 900..and if he went big again, bodyweight, I think he could do a grand...and you never question that mans depth...

Yea if kirk wanted to and actually trained for it he would deffinatly be able to get up a grand raw to well below acceptable depth

"kirk is a scumbag"... :? Ok...so I'm hearing you guys ain't fishin' ;) buddies, but I'm not hearing how that answers the question at hand: is he a 900lb-squatting "scumbag" or a 1,000+lb-capable squatting "scumbag" :-D

I deleted the negative comment as it didn't further this discussion whatsoever.

The Heaviest RAW Total was done on Saturday
February 11, 2006 by Nick Minneti at the
100% RAW World Championships in Raleigh, NC.

Beau Moore held the old record of 2065 lbs.

Nick's Total on Saturday was: 2100 lbs.

His Lifts: 800 lb. Squat 510 lb. Bench 790 lb. Deadlift

Nick's Photos, Bio & Interview coming soon!
Visit: http://www.TEAMiXL.com

Right now if you can squat 800 RAW at
competition depth you're one of only
a handful of people that can do so
on planet earth. In all Federations
that offer RAW Powerlifting...to my
knowledge there is no one on the planet
that has squatted more than 800 lbs.

Again that's in competition, legal depth
and had their lift recorded as a Record!

If someone can name the Federation, Athlete
and the amount lifted, I'll stand corrected.

The 1,000 lb. Squat is so far out there
that to wonder about someone doing it
when there are only a few...1, 2 maybe 3
that have done an 800 lb. squat in competition,
only takes from those Athletes Herculean Efforts!

800 lb. RAW...is the Gold Standard of super human
RAW Power, when it comes to weight lifted in the Squat.

If there is to be a debate...then let it
be over an 850 lb. Squat and the question
should be: Will any of us be lucky enough
to see someone do a squat so heavy
RAW & Drug Free?

Greg, many people consider using knee wraps as still lifting raw. With that in mind, do you think 900 is possible by anyone? With or without drugs.

Jon,

I do know of people that think that wraps
are part of RAW...The majority decision on
this in regards to Federation Rules written
by people focused on RAW Lifts states:

No Wraps, No Suits & No Drugs.

AAU, 100% RAW Powerlifting Federations.

These two federations have more RAW Lifters
registered than any other...and thus in
regards to RAW Lifting are setting a standard.

With that said. It could be done...Shane Hamman
has squatted extremly heavy wearing a singlet
and wraps...Nick Minneti...could give it a run.

We may even have a few others on TEAM iXL that could or will lift such weight, Drug Free and wearing only wraps. www.TEAMiXL.com

The key here is the individual that would be able
to do this feat Drug Free...would need to have
tremedous torso size and strength...to act as
a base for stabalizing themselves under the weight.

It's not just about Leg Strength...when your getting up around a 1/2 Ton. The suit and wraps
purpose is to aid in the stabalization...of the
Athlete so they can focus on the drive needed to
get out of the hole. Mental strength is a huge
factor as well. In short I think it can be done.

It sounds like you think 900 is possible, even drug free. That seems to imply that more would be possible, like maybe 1,000, if drugs were used?

Your take on the definition of raw is interesting. Due to the fractured status of powerlifting, including raw, it's somewhat hard to declare any organization(s) as setting a standard at this point. Have you seen that Monster Muscle is coming out with raw rankings and their definition of raw includes knee wraps?

Jon,

Your point is what...I mean Monster Muscle
now holds some type of heat or decision
process that should be somehow more
credible than the AAU or 100% RAW.

If anything Monster Muscle should defer
to Federations that spend the money, time
and resource to support the lifter in
what they do...Lift weights RAW & Drug Free!

Anything else is simply helping to polarize
the sport of Powerlifting. Something that
we need in our sport...like a hole in the head!

The future growth and mainstream acceptance
will need both the factors mentioned above
for our sport to reach its full potential.

They are: RAW Lifting being done Drug Free!

We need Champions & Totals...that parents can
have their children admire and show them that
the lifts that were done were True RAW Power.

No special gear...or drugs...just an athlete
doing battle against cold heavy steel. Winning
because of Technique and Strength unsupported!

I hope this clears up what camp I'm in...LOL

Always Remember...There are No Limits Drug Free!

http://www.TEAMiXL.com

If anything Monster Muscle should defer to Federations...

Anything else is simply helping to polarize
the sport of Powerlifting. Something that
we need in our sport...like a hole in the head!

That was my point, that powerlifting is fractured. No one is on the same page. Leadership will be determined by moving the sport, whether in raw or in total. It won't be determined by goals. At this point, most don't see any group(s) taking the lead in this regard.

Greg, I don't think many people misinterpret the camp you're in - you're pretty clear in what you say. :) By the way, here's the link to Greg's website.

Greg, Capt. Kirk hit 826 raw no knee wraps at an AAu meet at 242lbs. also benched 460a nd pulled 777 i think for a 2046 total at 242.

PS- wait for the New England Record Breakers Meet on May 6th! We will see what the big boys are capable of!!

Unfortunately, the results probably will not be worth much in Greg's eyes as the meet will not be drug tested.

well.... ya cant please everyone.

I don't think a 900lb RAW Squat can be done drug free anytime soon. Let's not forget there are "drug free" lifters who are not actually drug free! Heck, many people will be lucky to Squat 600lbs RAW with proper depth and drug free. And that's the truth. I have trained in strongman, powerlifting, and olympic style's of lifting. Let me tell you most people have no clue what 700lbs feels like! But many people throws around these numbers like any old buddy can do it. I have seen guys who can supposingly squat 700-750 pounds RAW only to watch them do PARTIAL squats of that weight. And these guys were built for the squat! Anyone can claim to squat this or that, but doing it in a meet is another story. Even if someone does a RAW squat of 900lbs in a drug free meet everyone then will wonder if that person was actually drug free! So who knows if it really is possible.

a 1000 lbs raw squat is incredible.But there was some people who squatted 100lbs raw.But before told who are those supersquatters lets's have some consideration.When we talk about powerlifting squat,we are talking about a parallel squat,not a full ass to grass squat (in olympic style...).So,people like mark henry,or don reinoudt,that almost do a 1000(450 kg) lbs squat rawthey have maximum a full squat in the range of 850-860 lbs (380-390 kg ca).The same for the top ipf guys.But we can find the most incredible genetic freak in those sport who have more hystory and athletic exasperation than powerlifting or strongman.I talk about olympic lifting and shot put.
In shot put,udo beyer could squat 450 kg raw! almost 1000lbs.And manuel martinez do more than 300kg bench raw.
Let's talk about top guys in olympic lifting.Serge reding were witnessed by doctor mell stiff doing sets of 5 reps of speed squat with 400kg...without any spotters suit or belt!...Rudolf plukefelder,the coach of old russian olympic team in the 80s told that aslanbek yenaldiev do a 500kg squat ...all the way down with only a belt.It's hard to believe but enaldiev was famous for his ability to squat 455kg .But it was not drug free ...for shure!However i read that the record of the old dynamo team (urss olympic) was 1014 lbs.Hossein rezazadeh train with 400 squat raw easily.ass to grass.And for the lighter guys i know that david rigert was able to do 3 reps with 305kg raw at 198lbs.Three ass to grass fast reps.Idalberto aranda ,77kg, do a double with 290kg at the end of his workout (ironmind tape).so...a 1000lbs squat raw is possible but very hard!

dude guys like maruiz pudzinowski the strongman could hes strong as hell

What is the current Raw Squat record in a powerlifting meet?

I don't want to here about what some coach CLAIMS his athlete can do! I want to know what the actual RAW Squat record is!

Eventually a 1000lb Raw Squat will be done however it will be done WITH drugs. The question is when!

It will take a long time before a 1000lb Raw Drug free Squat can be done.

a 1000lbs raw squat in a meet now,is very difficult.For the simply reason that anyone is interested by powerlifting raw meet.Elite powerlifting or strongman champions don't lift in infamous raw federation.Now there are federation like wpo or apf in which you can win a lot of money and become famous in the world.but there are triple ply suit monolift ecc...so a 1100 lbs wpo squat is maybe a 850 lbs raw parallel squat.In europe the most important federation is ipf.Thre are a lot of strong guys.but not many people start powerlifting..in russia thre are 10000000 people in weightlifting,and only 50000 in powerlifting.Many powerlifting champions was ex not elite weightlifter.the same for other athlete like shot putters.some discrete shot putters wins strongman contest.geoff capes (a world shot putter)wins 2 times the world strongest man but i think he wins only a commonwealth game in shot put.So is most rare to find a fenomenal freak nowedays in powerlifting.An guys that could done a 1000 squat raw maybe will never do a raw meet.For whichreason for example,guy like rezazadeh must do a powerlifting raw meet?

Not only a raw meet but also drug tested. That's what makes the feat so difficult. Although as you say Eugene there may be those that can but they'll never participate under these conditions, so we'll never know.

Eugene,

Your posts seem to say that you believe weightlifters (Olympic, shot putters) are better squatters then Powerlifters and Strongman?

If so why?

No,because weightlifting and powerlifting are different sport.powerlifting squat is different to olympic style squat.but i want only to say tha olympic lifting have more hystory and exasperation.so we have many possibility to find the the most incredible talents in olympic lifting.i report anm article from the famous coach glenn pendlay:greyowl, we usually agree on most things but im gonna have to disagree with you on this one. ive competed in highland games, Ol, PL, and even a bit of strongman for fun... and i know and have trained with more than a few of the top guys in each sport. and ill say without a doubt that there isnt a highland games athlete alive that is as strong as any one of the top 5 superheavy olympic lifters.

let me give you a couple of examples for comparison, exercises that all of the above sports do for training.

military press... there are some strongman competitors who do in the low 400's, as well as some highland games guys and some bodybuilders even. but when the press was an event in OL, the top guys were doing over 500lbs. you mighyt say that the "lay-back" olympic style of pressing has something to do with this, but most other athletes get some knee kick to get the weight started, and some of the OLers such as redding and patera did VERY strict presses with in excess of 500lbs. this is just plain stronger than other strength athletes.

power cleans... you might say that the squat clean and snatch are specialized, and OLers ahve an advantage. well, most strongmen, highland games guys, shot putters, etc, all do powercleans. jud logan was famous in the track and field world for a 440lb powerclean. from my experience, most highland games guys do less than 400lbs, but i do know a couple who have done 400lbs. i dont know any strongman competitors who have done 400, but i suspect some have. i know a couple of powerlifters who have done 400lbs, one is chuck V., and i know gary frank, who is regarded as the best and strongest powerlifter ever at superheavy has done 440lbs. ed coan reports having done 425. these guys are the best of the best in their respective sports. but the best olympic lifters powerclean above 500lbs. krastev did 529. friends tell me kurlovick did 529 also. jaber reportedly did 550 while training in bulgaria, weighing less than 300lbs. again, the OLers arent in a whole other class, but they are a bit stronger in a common exercise.

squats. lets talk squats without powerlifting equipment. i know coan has done 825. i know several strongmen who report lifts between 750 and 800 for full squats. there are numerous shot putters and disc throwers who are in the 700-800 range. ive never personally known or seen a highland games guy with that huge of a squat, i do know one in particular who has done 700lbs, hes regareded in highland games circles as a monster with bad technique but strength to spare. but in OL, the record for the old dynamo club in the soviet union is 1014. tarenenko did 837lbs for a triple with a 2 second pause at the bottem of each rep. kurlovich is reported to have done reps with 880 very easily. ive seen shane do 804 with such ease that it looked like a warmup, and hes not even in the top 10 in the world. he definately got a 900lb olympic squat to go along with his official 1008 powerlifting squat. so again, the top OLers are a bit stronger.

now, im not trying to just be pro OL here, so i want to tell you WHY, in my opinion, the top OLers are a bit stronger than the top guys in other sports...

let me give you an example, jaber of bulgaria. he is totally state supported, he has no job. he trains 6-8 hours a day, that is his job. that is his only life. no worries about bills, food, drugs. everything is provided, he just has to train. compare to a highland ccompetitor. most likely, he has a job, and trains as a hobby. he travels every weekend throughout the season to compete, which he must do if he wants to make any money at all. same for strongman, although they dont compete as often. double that for powerlifters, they cant make a living at the sport. its a hobby.

IF the current crop of strongmen, highland games athletes, powerlifters, were state supported, and trained under the same conditions at the top OLers, would they reach the same levels of strength? probably. but until that happens, they probably wont

if anyone could of squatted a grand raw it would have been bill kazmier that guy was one strong dude he deadlifted 800 raw like for 5 reps he was crazy.

Eugene,
I am not trying to start a big argument, but in all fairness to PL and strongman I disagree about OL being the strongest athletes.

Power cleans: OL have the advantage due the fact they simply have better technique then other strength athletes. Because they use that type of movement all the time in training. The power clean is a lift that requires lots of technique. If guys like Pudzinowski, Coan and Gary Frank had the same technique training as an OL lifter they would easily power clean more weight.

Military Press: Patera did a 500lb clean and Press which involves technique. It was not a true Military press. Military Press is done strict without a knee bend etc. Also I don't believe Patera ever won a WSM competition in which he competed in. Also chest press movements are very important for upper body strength too. OL don't train with chest press movements.

Ed Coan outlifts(gym lifts) strongman Janne Virtannen, but he could never beat Virtannen in a strongman competition. I know strongman who use only olympic lifting training when they train in the gym and have good numbers yet lose in strongman competitions to "weaker" competitors. My point is that powerlifting, strongman, OLympic lifting are similiar in the fact that strength is the main goal, but each style can be very different in what lifts they train for( Principle of Specifity).
Which brings up the question about who is the best squatters.

OL lifters use the Squat as a very important assistance exercise, but it's not one of there main lifts. Also many squat "Olympic" style which puts the body at a disadvantage for maximum strength on that lift, but helps with assisting the Olympic lifts. Powerlifters focus on the Squat as one of the main exercises and place the bar and their stance in a better position for maximum weight.

My point is that someone who trains strictly powerlifting style has a better chance at squatting more weight (parallel or full) then if the same person trained strictly Olympic style.

As far as Russian OL squatting world record numbers? Where they done in a competition with judges etc.?

jay,
I post this considerations than i consider close the argument.
Your considerations are very interesting!....I agree with you in a lot of points.I like very much powerlifting,and people like eddy coan are some af my heroes.But the fact is this: nowadays in powerlifting world there are few freak than in ol world.And in general the point is that ol have always have had more freaks than powerlifting,simply beacause of more people were involved in this sport.I think that the greatest freak in powerlifting world (in term of squat) was coan,hetfield,bridges,pacifico,and obviously cole and rehinoudt.In the late 70ies powerlifters like cole cook reinoudt lifts raw...and the great powerlifting squat raw off all time was 423 kg by don reinhoudt.Cole and cook did a bit more than 400 kg.Than arrived the squat suit.in the eighties and early 90ties there was shitty suits and only ipf and uspf rules....and incredible freaks like coan or hatfield arrived at over 1000lbs squats.probably guys like them if they started ol seriously maybe will be a great lifters..(hatfiell was a lightweight ol).But then borned a lot of federations like wpo apf wpl ecc ecc...
Those federation introduced monolift double ply suite wraps ecc ecc....so nowadays we have two "kind" of powerlifting..Ipf stile and wpo stile. In ipf style there are "serious" judges and only one ply suits.But there are europeans guys.And in europe ol is predominant.so ...look at the 2005 ipf ranking...in the 90 kg the top squat is 375 kg....dimas have a 280 kg front squat (showed ina tape) and a 330 kg o squat....dont you think that under ipf roules didnt beat the 375 kg of Sergiy Romanenko? Also sevincdone a 280 kg (very very well done9 in a ironmind tape.Chackarov did a 350 kg at ca 93-94 kg.Rigert at 198 did 675 * 3...raw olympic style.Brian siders do 420 kg squat.bondarenko 450 kg.Don't you think that guys like hamman,or reza or sherbatis could do more under ipf roules?....let's talk about wpo powerlifting.they use monolift suits ecc...in 3 years (the first man to brake 500 kg barrier was goggins in 2003)the squat record is increased of more than 50 kg and a lot of people have done more than 1100 lbs! (and don't speak about bench press...)...i think that most of those increment are due to the evolution of the suits!...in 20 years of weightlifting the records are still by taranenko, krastev vardanyan ecc...in 3 years of pl almost all records are changed...all freaks??? i don't think.
and during the seventies people like pater squatted 380 kg * 2 oli think that with a bit of training would be able to compete to reinhoudt or kazmaier...reding was witnessed do 400 * 5 resps of speed raw squat.So i think only that in the past both power and olympic had his strenght phenom...but now i think that this kind of rules have damaged powerlifting.and the top oilympiv guys are a bit stronger...bye

I've heard that Bud Jeffries can Squat 1000 lbs. I've seen a video of him squatting 900 raw..only a belt and himself.

i saw a guy squat 992, no more than an inch high, so it was redlighted with no gear, just a singlet, belt and wraps, by no means should he have been at AWPC worlds, but a freaky squat, very easy too. and I am a judge so i did see it was about an inch high at the most

I dont know, i would like to see someone like Jeff Everson would offer 10,000 to the first man to do it, like he did with the deadlift, so it would generate some intrest and get some of these monsters out of their gear even for a little while to see what they can do.

This is 10% Luck, 20% Skill, 15% Concentrated Power of Will... 5% Pleasure, 50% Pain, and 100% Reason to Remember the Name!

Kirk hit 826 at 275 two years ago. 130 lbs more..., that is a lot of weight. But, I think 1,000 lbs, because I've seen Kirk train, would be within his range. But, he is older and has issues from years of abuse that his body has endured. I watched him toy with 605 for 6 reps in August last year.

my dad dave waddington was the first man to squat 1000 lbs. drug free. he did it back in the 80s he even has pics of him squating with arnold shwartcsnagger

Ive studied Olympic weightlifting for years, looking at squats I would of thought the all time (true) world record including unnoficials is maybe about 450-500 Kg (below parallel of the femur) (so its the whole legs below parallel) at the most. Paul Anderson possible is someone that could do that, I think his 1206 is possible an exaduration or partial squat, but i suppose if you have the correct genetic makeup, it is highly possible.

Just for kicks, youtube this:

there is a guy named Bud Jeffries who is now a Christian strength athlete and minister. Youtube his name, there's a vid of him squatting 1000 from a dead stop, in a rack, off of pins that are in the bottom position. It might make you laugh.

If anyone will ever do it- It will be Donnie.

Squatting 955 off a low box out of a foam pad? pure insanity. He's the strongest human on the planet, no doubt... and no one will catch him. He's a true warrior, and if anyone is going to break his WR total, it'll be him.

Rock on Donnie!!

Only The Strong Survive!!!!!!!!

i think if sam byrd gains 20-30lbs he can do it easy sam is strong geared and raw thats who i have my money on

Just for some info.... the only reliable federation is the IPF and note it was organised in the 40/50s. The records on there are realistic and they are very strict on rules and equipment. The world record for a raw squat cant possibly exceed 430 Kg.

here is a list of the best squatters:

1. Brent Mikesell (517.5 Kg squat WPC - excellent depth - extremely good squat)
2. Andy Bolton (possibly leagal all time heaviest 550.5 Kg WPC)
3. Hossein Rezazadeh (Best probably all time Olympic squatter)
4. Aslanbek Yenaldiev (best claimed lifter all time - 500 Kg raw ???)
5. Shane Hamman - (IPF world record all time heaviest - single ply 457.5 Kg)
6. Paul Anderson - Claimed a raw squat of 544 kg???)
7. Marc henry - (Raw all time wr holder 430 kg - no evidence)
8. Don Reinhoudt - 422.5 Kg - 4th best IPF squtter all time - Suit???)

Out of these i would say the all time best squtter is:

Shane Hamman i would say is the only official and reliable best all time squatter. I would say raw he could do a certain 425 Kg - defeating all raw claims - Pauls 544 kg was unnoficial, Yenaldiev 500/455 was claimed, Vladislav Alkahov's 567 kg was not a definate squat.

You lift today, sleep tonight, eat tommarow and live Forever.

Look if anyone was to squat 1000 pounds he would have to be 400 pounds min and really be 25 or so years old...theres no way anyone other than maybe Marc Henry or Brian Siders would of been able to get that weight. You really need to get to the nuts and bolts of the way the human body works in order to know if anyone can or cant.

Claude Bouyer 165 wrote:
Only The Strong Survive!!!!!!!!

i think if sam byrd gains 20-30lbs he can do it easy sam is strong geared and raw thats who i have my money on

Byrd could though if you double the mass of your lifter then his strength increase is halved.

Jay wrote:
I don't think a 900lb RAW Squat can be done drug free anytime soon. Let's not forget there are "drug free" lifters who are not actually drug free! Heck, many people will be lucky to Squat 600lbs RAW with proper depth and drug free. And that's the truth. I have trained in strongman, powerlifting, and olympic style's of lifting. Let me tell you most people have no clue what 700lbs feels like! But many people throws around these numbers like any old buddy can do it. I have seen guys who can supposingly squat 700-750 pounds RAW only to watch them do PARTIAL squats of that weight. And these guys were built for the squat! Anyone can claim to squat this or that, but doing it in a meet is another story. Even if someone does a RAW squat of 900lbs in a drug free meet everyone then will wonder if that person was actually drug free! So who knows if it really is possible.

I agree and thats as far as that goes.

You lift today, sleep tonight, eat tommarow and live Forever.

You know after seeing C4 SQUAT 800 @ 225 I cant doubt it.

I think Sam Byrd will do it someday soon, whether at 220 or 242. That man is crazy stong....

TheNewOx8 wrote:
If anyone will ever do it- It will be Donnie.

Squatting 955 off a low box out of a foam pad? pure insanity. He's the strongest human on the planet, no doubt... and no one will catch him. He's a true warrior, and if anyone is going to break his WR total, it'll be him.

Rock on Donnie!!

Do u have video? Yes Donnie is an absolute beast. I was very impressed with him at the NERB and have followed him closely since then.

Claude Bouyer 165 wrote:
Only The Strong Survive!!!!!!!!

i think if sam byrd gains 20-30lbs he can do it easy sam is strong geared and raw thats who i have my money on

No i couldnt. Not yet at least. 830ish in wraps is about the best i can muster right now.

Rob Wilkerson just hit a close 903 at the APF Bama last week. His squat is comin on strong.

Tiger Taylor148 wrote:
Claude Bouyer 165 wrote:
Only The Strong Survive!!!!!!!!

i think if sam byrd gains 20-30lbs he can do it easy sam is strong geared and raw thats who i have my money on

Byrd could though if you double the mass of your lifter then his strength increase is halved.

Is this the same as Micheal Taylor? just curious.

What do u mean about "doubling the mass of lifter then strength increase is half"?

Are u saying if one were to gain 30lbs of solid mass, they would only put about 15lbs on their lift? I have found about the opposite of that. Maybe i misunderstood?

Phil Duke Jr. wrote:
I think Sam Byrd will do it someday soon, whether at 220 or 242. That man is crazy stong....

Again, im workin for it... but baby steps for now. All u guys have just about convinced me to see what happens if i eat for a little while and gain some weight. Im not totally sold yet, but im considering it. Im just not looking forward to the diet that will follow later!

No whinning...just eat

Never eat on an empty stomach.

Next time you are up this way, holler at us.

big_byrd52 wrote:
Tiger Taylor148 wrote:
Claude Bouyer 165 wrote:
Only The Strong Survive!!!!!!!!

i think if sam byrd gains 20-30lbs he can do it easy sam is strong geared and raw thats who i have my money on

Byrd could though if you double the mass of your lifter then his strength increase is halved.

Is this the same as Micheal Taylor? just curious.

What do u mean about "doubling the mass of lifter then strength increase is half"?

Are u saying if one were to gain 30lbs of solid mass, they would only put about 15lbs on their lift? I have found about the opposite of that. Maybe i misunderstood?

Yeah man its me; I made a post about all of this.

I also changed my name and login information becuase someone got into my old one and made a ridiculus post on powerwatch.

I read from credible sources such as books by human kinetics that this is true. We are both right. Muscle mass is relatively stronger than your whole body is so if you gain 30 pounds; then your body will grow closer to that relative strength. But after a certain point this isnt going to be the case. You see right now im about 135 pounds pulling about 450 but if I double my mass then I'll weigh 270 and my pull will be only about 675 or so. I can double my weight but I can only add 50 percent more to my 1 RM. My pound for pound strength will go down from 3.3 to 2.5 times my own weight. Its basicially a rough estimate.... I will be absaloutly stronger but relatively weaker.

Now since muscle is so much relitively stronger than that, in the short run if I get up to the 181s then I should be looking at pulling at 3.5 or so times my own weight. I'm only 18 years old and I have some filling in to do.

If jon got to my post then what I am saying will be further explained.

big_byrd52 wrote:
Phil Duke Jr. wrote:
I think Sam Byrd will do it someday soon, whether at 220 or 242. That man is crazy stong....

Again, im workin for it... but baby steps for now. All u guys have just about convinced me to see what happens if i eat for a little while and gain some weight. Im not totally sold yet, but im considering it. Im just not looking forward to the diet that will follow later!

You already own several world records and with raw strength like yours, after seeing that 705 at 210; I would bet that if you get into the 275s or 308s then 950 to 1000 is totally possible.

Tiger Taylor148 wrote:
big_byrd52 wrote:
Phil Duke Jr. wrote:
I think Sam Byrd will do it someday soon, whether at 220 or 242. That man is crazy stong....

Again, im workin for it... but baby steps for now. All u guys have just about convinced me to see what happens if i eat for a little while and gain some weight. Im not totally sold yet, but im considering it. Im just not looking forward to the diet that will follow later!

You already own several world records and with raw strength like yours, after seeing that 705 at 210; I would bet that if you get into the 275s or 308s then 950 to 1000 is totally possible.

only way im gettin to 275s is when i weigh in at 243! 308s will never happen!

The heaviest i have ever been was 247, and i was freakin miserable. that was in 2004 before i started power lifting... ya know what the funny thing is... when i was bodybuilding, i only had abs right before the show and was fat the rest of the year. Now im powerlifting and have abs all year long... like the cigerette commercial-- whatdafukisupwitdat?!

big_byrd52 wrote:
Tiger Taylor148 wrote:
big_byrd52 wrote:
Phil Duke Jr. wrote:
I think Sam Byrd will do it someday soon, whether at 220 or 242. That man is crazy stong....

Again, im workin for it... but baby steps for now. All u guys have just about convinced me to see what happens if i eat for a little while and gain some weight. Im not totally sold yet, but im considering it. Im just not looking forward to the diet that will follow later!

You already own several world records and with raw strength like yours, after seeing that 705 at 210; I would bet that if you get into the 275s or 308s then 950 to 1000 is totally possible.

only way im gettin to 275s is when i weigh in at 243! 308s will never happen!

The heaviest i have ever been was 247, and i was freakin miserable. that was in 2004 before i started power lifting... ya know what the funny thing is... when i was bodybuilding, i only had abs right before the show and was fat the rest of the year. Now im powerlifting and have abs all year long... like the cigerette commercial-- whatdafukisupwitdat?!

Thats crazy man. lol

I think 900-950 Lbs is possible, but no more. Im not happy with the depths of some of the squats though. A squat is a Squat not a half squat. I think the IPF have the idear, but i think there are too many organisations. The IPF should have all types of competition including raw, and then see the results. Its almost impossible to say who is the best squatter. I wouldnt say 1000 lbs is possible raw though for a true squat, not yet anyway, but maybe in the future.

Does anyone have any evidence on Marc Henry's 430 kg raw squat?? i would like to know what this record is.

I think 1000 lbs maybe possible, but it depends on the equipment for "Raw"

I know a guy at work whose uncle's accountant's cousin did it wearing just a Valeo belt and Ace bandages...with no spotters!!! Seriously though, I do think it's possible. It'll probably be someone that weighs 400+ and under 6FT. tall. Since the raw records seem to be creeping up over the last few years, something like this wouldn't surprise me at all.

Tiger Taylor148 wrote:

You already own several world records and with raw strength like yours, after seeing that 705 at 210; I would bet that if you get into the 275s or 308s then 950 to 1000 is totally possible.

Your math fails. If the information you provided above relating strength to weight is reasonably accurate, then Sam would have to weigh approximately 381 lbs to squat 1000 lbs based his raw squat of 705 at 210. If we assume a hefty margin of error, say 20%, then the 308s look reasonable. However, if you are going to assume that large an error you would first have to show that a plot of strength vs weight is not well fit by a power function (and it is). I'd say he'd have to be a super to squat a grand raw.

I disagree with 50% of the penultimate sentence of the previous post I made under the pseudonym of "Anonymous", but the rest sounds about right.

sborg wrote:
I disagree with 50% of the penultimate sentence of the previous post I made under the pseudonym of "Anonymous", but the rest sounds about right.

Right, well there are actual laws that goven what I am saying.

And, I took a guess. 381 sounds right but thats still too rough.

In the order of importance from least important to most important, I have a few links that talk about all this.

I'm still looking for more so hold on.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/sauropods/sauropods-misc.html

http://curriculum.calstatela.edu/courses/builders/lessons/less/les9/area.html

http://www.ftexploring.com/think/superbugs_p2.html

http://www.kronia.com/symposium/holden.txt

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/sauropods/sauropods-allometry.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square-cube_law

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/sauropods.html

What? dude u lost me! haha

i dont know how u calculated all that out, but let me ask u a question just for the sake of argument. My 705 was without knee wraps. I have done 826 in knee wraps at 215. based on those numbers, what would i have to weigh to squat 1000 pounds in knee wraps? i really dont think 900 is that far out of my reach when i am at my strongest up around 230, but i am curious what this formula u guys have devised says.

sborg wrote:
I disagree with 50% of the penultimate sentence of the previous post I made under the pseudonym of "Anonymous", but the rest sounds about right.

big_byrd52 wrote:
What? dude u lost me! haha

i dont know how u calculated all that out, but let me ask u a question just for the sake of argument. My 705 was without knee wraps. I have done 826 in knee wraps at 215. based on those numbers, what would i have to weigh to squat 1000 pounds in knee wraps? i really dont think 900 is that far out of my reach when i am at my strongest up around 230, but i am curious what this formula u guys have devised says.

sborg wrote:
I disagree with 50% of the penultimate sentence of the previous post I made under the pseudonym of "Anonymous", but the rest sounds about right.

I would just gain 30 pounds!
That should do the trick!
:-0
Anyways all it says is that as you get proportionally larger you get relatively weaker. But shit you aren’t getting larger...not going from 5'8” to 11’4” feet tall. Just going from 230 pounds to 460 pounds…. Being less than six feet and gaining 230 pounds of lean mass without changing leverage would totally be at your advantage especially if most of this mass is added to the muscles in your quads and hips.
This shits totally just oversimplifying.
I think that oversimplifying the situation would be silly because weight lifted is more closely related to height than to body weight. It’s the muscles cross sectional area that is the key.
In a website I read "Muscle strength changes approximately with the change in muscle cross-sectional area. So that's all that has happened to our cube creature. The cross-sectional areas have increased by a factor of four, while the weight increased by a factor of eight."
This is where my 1 to 1.5 formula comes from.
Most of these other formulas suggest power to bodyweight ratios.
I think that these books ought to be interesting –
Fundamentals of Micro fabrication: The Science of Miniaturization
Conditioning for Strength and Human Performance – I think this is the one I read before.
http://www.ftexploring.com/think/superbugs_p2.html
I’ll figure out the rest tomorrow.

You lift today, sleep tonight, eat tommarow and live Forever.

1000^.667 + 705^.667

171.3 + 210.0

= 381.3

826 - 705 = 121.
121 / 705 = .172

.172 * 100 = 17.2%

Your wraps give a 17 percent increase to your raw squat.

I also know that heaver lifters have a much higher percent increase in raw strength that lighter lifters do. That’s why all the 165 and under lifters in the IPF still own most of the world records.

I only squat about 300 at around 135 (315 @ 136 is my best) in a belt so me using wraps won’t give me 17 percent more it gives me almost nothing. My cross sectional area when I was a 123 lifting with coach Brandon Bankston was, in his vocabulary, “chicken legs” LOL!

I was only squatting about 225 then and had a wrapped squat of about 245 in the gym and I hit something similar at a meet. So mines only 8.8 percent.

Haha…seriously they give you 121 pounds and they give me…20 pounds…LOL!

You also at 210 hit 705 and that’s 3.36 times your own weight and 1000 @ 381 is only 2.62 times your own weight. That to me says that formula is an overall body mass increase indicator…and not leg mass increase indicator.

I would also maybe look at dividing a thousand by 3.36 and you get about 297.6 pounds. This uses what you already accomplished in the equation. If you can gain a pound of muscle and lift 3.36 pounds more that seems to be an earthly approach.

I would say that this is more accurate because you also have to account for leverage and an increase neuromuscular efficiency. I would guess you may only need to be in the upper 308's to possibly squat a 1,000 pounds even without wraps.

450/100 = 4.500

675/200 = 3.375

1012.5/400 = 2.53

These use the square cube law and are actually comparable to real lifters strength. I know strength is NOT linear and that it is quadratic and inverse because the weight increases faster than the strength does.

It’s really, really hard to say though.

I would guess around 300 pounds you could do it, and do it at triple bodyweight; that’s just freaking insane!

You lift today, sleep tonight, eat tommarow and live Forever.

Jon, what do you take on this discussion?

haha well thats alot of speculation and way too much math for me!

actually when i did the 826 i was hitting about a 730-740 without wraps, i just hadnt done it in a meet. i get about 80-100 out of my APT wraps.

This is 10% Luck, 20% Skill, 15% Concentrated Power of Will... 5% Pleasure, 50% Pain, and 100% Reason to Remember the Name!

I believe the record at the moment to be realistically for Raw (no assisting equipment) or allowing no equipment, certainly that assists for the all time world record "deep" to be around 400kg. Other claims and theory's prove redicolous. The IPF were the first organisation and in my opinion the most trustworthy. If the top guns there are squatting 460 kg at the very most, i really doubt 453 (1000 lbs) is possible raw. Its just not possible.

and BTW, I dont think any olympic lifter can squat more than 375kg 100 % raw and full depth, just not possible.

Has anyone got any video evidence of any raw lifts???

big_byrd52 wrote:
haha well thats alot of speculation and way too much math for me!

actually when i did the 826 i was hitting about a 730-740 without wraps, i just hadnt done it in a meet. i get about 80-100 out of my APT wraps.

This is 10% Luck, 20% Skill, 15% Concentrated Power of Will... 5% Pleasure, 50% Pain, and 100% Reason to Remember the Name!

740 is big

I dont know man most guys wont even feel 700 let alone 1000 pounds.

Mikelard wrote:
I believe the record at the moment to be realistically for Raw (no assisting equipment) or allowing no equipment, certainly that assists for the all time world record "deep" to be around 400kg. Other claims and theory's prove redicolous. The IPF were the first organisation and in my opinion the most trustworthy. If the top guns there are squatting 460 kg at the very most, i really doubt 453 (1000 lbs) is possible raw. Its just not possible.

and BTW, I dont think any olympic lifter can squat more than 375kg 100 % raw and full depth, just not possible.

Has anyone got any video evidence of any raw lifts???

Then how do you explain Marc Henry's 948 @ 405 raw???

ITS POSSIBLE!

Lets all be optimistic! :P

Firstly, 948 Lbs is not 1000 Lbs, and where is the visual evidence of this... I bet he doesnt hit depth, and Anything that assists at all Knee wraps, briefs, is just not raw. I dont believe yet anyone can.

I think at the absolute most that the raw squat may be around 420 kg, but 455kg not yet, certainly not to depth.

And i also dont agree with some of the all time best squats, some of the guys are no were near parallel, WHO ALLOWS THESE LIFTS ?????

i saw that mikelard know a lot of statistics and records.i like those number me too. I read a lot of numbers along forums like goheavy or weightlifing exchange.i think that between the elite lifters or powerlifters of today there anyone could squat 1000lbs.I read that best records of rezazadeh are 380squat 340front squat and 456kg powerlifting squat...I think that he could squat more.From some post on goheavy i read some interesting freaks: lukanin vladislav seems able to front squat 280kg for 3 reps at 77kg.sevinc said that his best was 300fs and 400back at 88kg ca.On weightlifting exchnge an american lifter said that in 1983 some more than one lifter saw ian lisowsky front squat 300kg at 82,5kg! Yenaldiev is famous for his 455kg squat.i think that is real.But for the 500kg i think that is impossible.But liftersof the 80's take more drugs...but in my opinion i beleave that the best squatter of all time is serge reading.Doctor mell stiff witnessed him doing 5 reps of fast full squat without a belt with 400kg!!...in a post of goheavy i read that he done 3 reps with 450kg in powerlifting squat easy.He was 5,7 and aroun 140kg btw.probably the only one that could have squat more than 1000..

I did it drug free and in a jock strap....please I dont care what you, do if you put it on here some asshole is going to pick it apart,because he cant do it or his training partner. Damn put up or shut up.lets see your lifts.

Has anyone mentioned a certain Scott Weech 826lb squat at 100% raw nationalas at something like 22 years old???????? A Huge squat, im sure ive read in an interview that he says himself that he wants to crack 900lb raw.....i believe raw is no wraps...as wraps give different people different amounts and therefore should class as equipment

Putting the "Old" in old school powerlifting

I heard of him, he's good.
I am sure he could certainly do it.
Hes a 275'er/308'er if im not mistaken.

I am betting that he's up for it.

Marc Henry was much taller... its all about cross sectional area.

The other guy is short; in 5 years, if he gets up to well in the SHWs I bet he could do it.

One thing you must know is there is a lot of "crap" in powerlifting in terms of lifts given that shouldnt have been.... i doubt that anyone has ever much squatted raw over 400 kilos (881 lbs) and certainly totally raw (i.e. no equipment watsoever)... 400 kg is probs the world record really

rezazadeh can do 365 kg for a sinlgle ass to grass rep back squat, which is very good as he uses absolutely no equipment...

i personally consider it cheeting in terms of powerlifting, it may be fair for lifters to use equipment, but they only cheet themselves that they can lift over 1/2 a ton, even if they are ass to grass

the other thing is, it depends on WHAT YOU CONSIDER RAW TO YOURSELF PERSONALLY, and what you would be prepaired to accept....

The only thing im not sure on was Paul andersons 544 kg (1206 lb) squat, i would like to have seen that very much, but if a guy could have done 455 kg (1000) lbs raw, maybe he could, who knows....

The values about reza zadeh were posted by me, i have meet him ones, asked him and his permition and post, he says that he did once try a powerlifting squat of 456 kg.... hes a great guy, but he cant deadlift what you would expect, his best deadlift is 335 kg, but keep in mind hes not a powerlifter, and its totally raw....

i know this as im an olympic lifter also

sorry that figure should have been 355 Kg

e.randall wrote:
i saw that mikelard know a lot of statistics and records.i like those number me too. I read a lot of numbers along forums like goheavy or weightlifing exchange.i think that between the elite lifters or powerlifters of today there anyone could squat 1000lbs.I read that best records of rezazadeh are 380squat 340front squat and 456kg powerlifting squat...I think that he could squat more.From some post on goheavy i read some interesting freaks: lukanin vladislav seems able to front squat 280kg for 3 reps at 77kg.sevinc said that his best was 300fs and 400back at 88kg ca.On weightlifting exchnge an american lifter said that in 1983 some more than one lifter saw ian lisowsky front squat 300kg at 82,5kg! Yenaldiev is famous for his 455kg squat.i think that is real.But for the 500kg i think that is impossible.But liftersof the 80's take more drugs...but in my opinion i beleave that the best squatter of all time is serge reading.Doctor mell stiff witnessed him doing 5 reps of fast full squat without a belt with 400kg!!...in a post of goheavy i read that he done 3 reps with 450kg in powerlifting squat easy.He was 5,7 and aroun 140kg btw.probably the only one that could have squat more than 1000..

i dont think sevenic could back squat 400 kg, and 300 frnt squat at 88 kg bodyweight, the 300 fs would be enormous, and no one has ever even done a "real" squat of over 400 kilos... so to do it at 88 kg bodyweight is farcical !

In another thread about Reza competing in a 100% raw meet, he guestimate he will squat 859, bench 44-something and pull 840ish. Thats impressive as hell! but a far cry from 1,000. The biggest belt only squat i have seen is Donnie Thompsons 870 at nerb that was called high, but anyone who saw it will tell u if was close. the heaviest knee wrap squat was a 900 by rob wilkerson, again called on depth (wasnt there just saw video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-0vVQhVjM

Great discussion. I think that Paul Anderson is the only one who ever squatted 1000lbs+ raw. The legendary 1000lbs raw squat claim is the same as the legendary super saiyan claim.

Mark Henry's lift were legit; singlet and wraps. I believe it was the same meet (nationals)he hit a 903 deadlift. And USAPL hardly ever gives away gifts, at least they didn't back in the mid 90s when he did this. He then went and hit something like 936 in a world competition in the same gear. I saw him hit an 800 squat with no wraps at the Texas state meet that year and pull 825 for a triple when he came to Ft. Hood to train. I believe Terry Todd was training him at the time. I think he pulled 865 and missed in the 920s that meet as well. Freak of nature, although his BP wasn't all that (520 or so raw at 400+). He could slam dunk a basketball from a stand still jump and do push presses with over 500 pounds as well.

I personally saw Paul Anderson do a legitimate squat with 900 pounds at an exibition in Greensboro, North Carolina in 1963. It was amazingly easy (I was sitting approximately 20-25 feet or so from him) and he seemed capable of much, much more. I know he claimed around 1,200 and after seeing him do the 900 easily, I don't doubt at all well over 1,000 plus. He was hundreds of pounds ahead of anyone else that I know of at the time and that was amazing in itself.

nobody will squat a grand!!!! period point blank...in a meet at least...and yeah i know everybody's grandma's bestfriend who use to walk her dog that stayed down the street from you did it in a gym

you def could squat a 1,000lbs raw i have a 815 raw an i still had alittle left so bring it on this weekend i am going for an 845raw just a belt an wraps

Paul Wren did 975 in the early 80's, 275 weight class, if I am not wrong in the AAU.

no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! the best quats of today are only in the mid 8's

joecool wrote:
no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! the best quats of today are only in the mid 8's

You might think you know something but you are wrong.

Anonymous wrote:
joecool wrote:
no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! the best quats of today are only in the mid 8's

You might think you know something but you are wrong.

ok...Mr. know it all then why is it that the top meet squats are in the mid 800's...i know u seen a guy at your moms gym that could do 9 something..we talking about in a meet not what u or anybody else seen in a gym

Back in the 50-60's the WR was 600 something before Paul Anderson Came along. I remember reading about how he was discovered. He repped the WR and the rest is history.

I saw Paul Wren in the 80's and he was the greatest. The nails he laid on and then put on top with blocks on top of that, the weights he lifted. I believe our young people need to be exposed to more men like Wren, he is a christian to my knowledge and no need of the drug influence. Sometimes bringing back the old before being so involved with the new helps society. Wren, we parents of today need more men like you. Thanks for the influence you had on my children from Kings Way Baptist Church in the 80's.